🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

An Elf to battle Morgoth

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
If you could choose an elf to battle Morgoth, who would you choose?

I would choose Curufinwe, because he had the greatest hatred toward Morgoth, he was the only elf who had the passion to say the hell with the valar, i want revenge against Morgoth (Not literalilly but I think that was the thing he was trying to do) and he was a genius devising and making swords and armor.

Besides, he really wanted a piece of Melko. He would have done a better job of fighting him than his brother.
 

Lord Melkor

Registered User
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
No pathetic Elf will ever stand a chance against Melkor, King of Arda! Feanor had a great spirit, but Fingolfin`s combat prowess had no equal among Eldar! Feanor would most likely have less stamina problems than his brother, but his fury would make him make a mistake!
 
Last edited:

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
Yes -- Fingolfin is obviously the elf of choice here... Feanor had a hot head and that doesn't make for good decisions in the heat of battle.

No need to mention that Fingolfin far exceeded Feanor in terms of martial skill. (Even though I've mentioned it anyhow. :) )
 

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
Feanor

Tyaronumen, I was wondering in what part of the Sil does it says that Fingolfin far exceeded Feanor in terms of martial skill. I have seen it written all over these boards and the only thing that i have remebered read in the sil was that Fingolfin was the most valiant son of Finwe.
 

Lord Melkor

Registered User
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Don`t tell me you believe that a mortal could beat me?! This is a bunch of Valar propaganda!

And sorry for spelling mistakes I sometimes forget to check my posts.
 

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
Melkor

Lord Melkor, he who arises in Might, the question is: An elf is mortal or inmortal, i thought they were inmortal.

If you were so powerful, why didn´t you kill all the Valar one at a time, begining with Manwe, Ulmo, Aule, etc.

If you are the mightiest being in ME, why was Tulkas able to beat you?

Were you more afraid of Feanor or Fingolfin.
 

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
Baraka -- I'll have to dig it up for you, or maybe one of these other kindly souls will know the point where Fingolfin's martial superiority is clearly elaborated on.

The mere fact that Feanor was slain by Balrog's (beings of a lesser order by far than Morgoth -- the Most Powerful Being Other Than Iluvatar Period :) ) and Fingolfin was defeated BY FEATURES OF THE LANDSCAPE (and not Morgoth himself, although I will grant that he caused these features to exist) is clear enough demonstration to me.
 

Telchar

Someone out there?
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
416
Reaction score
0
Location
Vestfold, Norway
Melkor was the most powerfull among the Valar, but hes power deminished greatly during the first age..
For as he grew in malice, and sent forth from himself the evil that he concieived in lies and creatures of wickedness, his power passed into them and was dispersed, and he himself became ever more earth-bound..
Morgoths Ring p.133
 

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
Originally posted by Telchar
Melkor was the most powerfull among the Valar, but hes power deminished greatly during the first age..
Yet nowhere is it given that somehow Morgoth was suddenly less mighty than his servants, the Balrogs.

Actually, we are told that NONE of the Eldar or Atani are strong enough to defeat one of the Valar. Can't remember where that quote is either, but it may be in the section where the Doom of Mandos is told.
 

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
Balrog´s

Originally posted by Tyaronumen
Baraka -- I'll have to dig it up for you, or maybe one of these other kindly souls will know the point where Fingolfin's martial superiority is clearly elaborated on.

The mere fact that Feanor was slain by Balrog's (beings of a lesser order by far than Morgoth -- the Most Powerful Being Other Than Iluvatar Period :) ) and Fingolfin was defeated BY FEATURES OF THE LANDSCAPE (and not Morgoth himself, although I will grant that he caused these features to exist) is clear enough demonstration to me.
How many balrog´s, I don´t seem to remember? I think that sometimes when you are attacked by various lesser beings is more difficult than facing one more powerful, because you can concentrate all your attention to that being and not everyone. I just don´t see it clear enough.

Would Fingolfin have gone to ME without the deeds of Curufinwe and seek revenge upon his father. I don´t think so.
 

Telchar

Someone out there?
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
416
Reaction score
0
Location
Vestfold, Norway
Originally posted by Tyaronumen


Yet nowhere is it given that somehow Morgoth was suddenly less mighty than his servants, the Balrogs.

Actually, we are told that NONE of the Eldar or Atani are strong enough to defeat one of the Valar. Can't remember where that quote is either, but it may be in the section where the Doom of Mandos is told.
You can't kill a spirit, and the Valar where spirits, so naturally, you can't kill them, but the bodily form they took may be destroyed, slain, injused, etc... And the difference between the powers of Melkor and the Balrogs where probably greater than we can imagine. The Balrogs where maiar, not valar...

IIRC Tolkien said that there were no more than 7 Balrogs in middle earth...
 

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
Re: Balrog´s

Originally posted by baraka


How many balrog´s, I don´t seem to remember? I think that sometimes when you are attacked by various lesser beings is more difficult than facing one more powerful, because you can concentrate all your attention to that being and not everyone. I just don´t see it clear enough.

Would Fingolfin have gone to ME without the deeds of Curufinwe and seek revenge upon his father. I don´t think so.
Yes -- I suppose it is possible for a billion ants to be more dangerous than one guy with a gun.

Actually, I'm not sure the # of Balrog's is specified... Feanor was slain by Gothmog tho...

And Fingolfin would've probably stayed in Valinor where he belonged and lived to a ripe old immortality.
 

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
Originally posted by Telchar


You can't kill a spirit, and the Valar where spirits, so naturally, you can't kill them, but the bodily form they took may be destroyed, slain, injused, etc... And the difference between the powers of Melkor and the Balrogs where probably greater than we can imagine. The Balrogs where maiar, not valar...

IIRC Tolkien said that there were no more than 7 Balrogs in middle earth...
Yeah -- I know that the Balrogs are Maiar and not Valar. That's why Fingolfin is clearly mightier than Feanor. Fingolfin holds his own against the most powerful and terrifying creature (with the possible exception of Ungoliant who even frightened Morgoth I believe) in all of Ea long enough to get in several wounds and give Morgoth a permanent limp.

Feanor gets whacked by lesser creatures. Sorta like getting killed by those billion ants as opposed to the guy with the gun. Nowhere near as impressive or noteworthy. :)
 

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
Re: Re: Balrog´s

Originally posted by Tyaronumen


Yes -- I suppose it is possible for a billion ants to be more dangerous than one guy with a gun.

Actually, I'm not sure the # of Balrog's is specified... Feanor was slain by Gothmog tho...

And Fingolfin would've probably stayed in Valinor where he belonged and lived to a ripe old immortality.
What about the death of his father, if your father were killed, I think you ought to do something that just sit in the sun. Shame on him. I think that is why Curufinwe was his favorite son.
 

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
Yes, Baraka... if anything of that nature happened to my father, I would definitely do something about it.

However, that does not make it in and of itself correct.

And do not forget that Feanor was a real $*(^@* BEFORE he knew of the death of Finwe. He refused to give the Silmarills to Yavanna and thus save the Two Trees before Finwe was dead. His father's death is no excuse for his fell behavior.
 

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
Correct

Originally posted by Tyaronumen
Yes, Baraka... if anything of that nature happened to my father, I would definitely do something about it.

However, that does not make it in and of itself correct.

And do not forget that Feanor was a real $*(^@* BEFORE he knew of the death of Finwe. He refused to give the Silmarills to Yavanna and thus save the Two Trees before Finwe was dead. His father's death is no excuse for his fell behavior.
You are correct, the things that he did were inexcusable. But if it were not for him, we would have no silmarillion, no noldors in ME.

It´s so cool to have a board where you have bright people who can make a real good argument about such fascinating things like the silmarillion. From where I´m there´s not many people insterested in reading.

Yet, with all his flaws and pride, he was the most beloved by his father. Too bad they didn´t have a sparring match between Feanor and Fingolfin to see who was the best.
 

Lord Melkor

Registered User
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Well isn`t it said that Eonwe was mightier in battle than some Valar? And why did I need Balrogs against Ungoliant?
Also flying dragons were the greater force on Arda, no single Vala could defeat them, those were my trump card against armies of The West, as you see I haven`t wasted my power, I created servants whose combined power was greater than my own!
 

Thorondor

Indie kid to the end
Joined
Sep 8, 2001
Messages
164
Reaction score
0
Location
My heart will always be in the land of sky blue wa
Originally posted by Tyaronumen
Fingolfin holds his own against the most powerful and terrifying creature (with the possible exception of Ungoliant who even frightened Morgoth I believe)
Melkor was afraid of practically everyone important. He alone of all the Valar knew fear. He was a fraid of Ungoliant, Tulkas, Ulmo, Fingolfin, Turgon, Thingol, Melian, and he probably didn't like a certain King of the Eagles either. ;)
 
Last edited:

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
*laugh* Good point, Thorondor... but I think that Ungoliant, Tulkas and Fingolfin were the three who really did a number on Morgoth...
 

Thread suggestions

Top