🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

Are orcs and gobblins ...

W

Wildcat98

Guest
the same thing? I've pretty much assumed that, but I'm not sure if it explicitly says that. In 'The Hobbit' it deals with gobblins, but then in 'Lord of the Rings' it switches to Orcs. Are they one and the same?

P.S. I am reading LOTR for the first time right now (currently The Return of the King). I am at the part where the riders of Rohan have just arrived when all appeared lost. It made me want to stand up and cheer. I can't believe I haven't read these books before.
 

Poor_Smeagol

Registered User
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Behind you!!!!
No, in the Hobbit it says that Orcs are Gobbos' bigger cousins. So they're kinda the same race, but orcs are bigger, and tougher. And Urak-Hais are even bigger, and even meaner.

PS: I just finished it yesterday, after the riders of Rohan came, I couldn't put it down, I felt the same. And I'm kinda upset with myself for not reading them sonner, cause I coulda finished them two years ago, but I couldn't STAND Tom Bombadil! I don't know what it is, everyonne else likes him, but I couldn't read it. "Ho ho Tom Bombadillo.... etc, etc etc", ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz....................
 

Cian

sylvan madman
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
530
Reaction score
2
We just had a thread on this, but again, orcs and goblins are the same thing, it is a matter of translation according to Tolkien (as in Orcrist "Goblin-cleaver").

Tolkien did not abandon "goblin" in tLotR, (and has used it in his early Mythology along with "orc") ... and used it in LotR in reference to large orcs. Grishnákh is refered to as both an "orc" and a "goblin" ... the "goblin" Bolg was the son of the great "orc" Azog ... and note the "meaning" in Etymologies for:

*orkú goblin: Q. orko ... N. orch
The N. stands for "Noldorin", a variant of the language that would become Sindarin, wherein "orch" is still the word for Orc. An orc is a goblin, a big goblin is, in The Hobbit, a hobgoblin (as JRRT meant it). The great soldier goblins in the LotR were Uruks.
 
Last edited:

Poor_Smeagol

Registered User
Joined
Dec 16, 2001
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Location
Behind you!!!!
THat's kinda what I meant. But in the Hobbit, it does say that ORCS are gobbos' bigger cousins. It probably say that about hobgoblins too, but I DISTINCTLY remember it saying orcs.;)
 

Cian

sylvan madman
Joined
Sep 19, 2001
Messages
530
Reaction score
2
In the full Tolkien corpus not every quote is admittedly easily clear where orc and goblin are concerned.

If the following is meant:

"... a bit low for goblins, at least for the big ones, thought Bilbo; not knowing that even the big ones, the orcs of the mountains, ..."

Still, "big ones" = "big goblins" = "orcs of the Mountains". Tolkien may simply be using a different but equatable term.

From Tolkien's Letters:

" ... but owe, I suppose, a good deal to the goblin tradition (goblin is used as a translation in The Hobbit, where orc only occurs once, I think) ..." JRRT
 
Last edited:

Lantarion

no house
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
3,734
Reaction score
6
Location
Finland
This is a very common question, and I think Cian answered it excellently. It would be great to include it in the FAQs.
 

Idril

"Sparkling Brilliance"
Joined
Feb 6, 2003
Messages
630
Reaction score
0
Location
Northants, England
Cian, can you please PM or email me:) (you haven't enabled your PM or your email, so I have no way of contacting you.

It regards the FAQ project.
Thanks

Idril
 

Thread suggestions

Top