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Aule!

Úlairi

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:D :D :D Don't you guys think that Aule just didn't get his fair share of 'good' Maia? Sauron (Falkin) went bad and Curumo (Curunir, Saruman), who went to stop Sauron did the same thing! It's just not fair for poor old Aule is it?:D :D :D
 

Bragollach

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Falkin is Sauron's real name? I remember a thread from a while ago where it was debated, and I wonder if you could lemme know where you found that that was his name?
Back on topic... It seemed like anyone that worked in one craft or another was predisposed to bad things. Feanor, Aule's Maia, the Dwarves even. I think that that goes into the theme of technology and the abuse and possesiveness thereof that was pretty consistent in LotR and the Sil. I could be wrong.
 

Beleg Strongbow

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I think it was more aule's type of people that went bad. Because of the greed and stuff. But here are some others that went bad
osse-ulmo.... he went bad just for a little but he came back
Also i think that there was only 2 of them. There would have been many more that went bad but they were the 2 most covered. Look they are both essential escpecially sauron to m.e's creation and history. Aule might just be a bad teacher:D :D :cool: . Or tolkien didn't have enough time to tell us about other maia like balrogs and other's.
 

Gloer

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Balrogs

I think balrogs were originally Melkors maia.
They are describes as spirits of fire and their job was to help to mould the world in the beginning. I think they represent the destructive force that is essentially part of any creative work. When you create something new you have to cause a destruction for the old.

So balrogs were Melkors maia. What does that tell us about Melkors special area of ability?
Fire is not an element - it is a phenomena.
I think he was supposed to be the vala to govern the dynamics between the elements (water, air and earth/ Ulmo, Manwe and Aule). Thus he was in a position to rule the ballance of the elements.
He must have had a part of the power over each one, mainly a dynamic power: he could freeze water into glaciers or melt the earth in a vulcano.

So Melkor was supposed to be the judge between Manwe's, Ulmo's and Aule's regimes. He instead wanted to be the dictator over them and the three had to make a multilateral arragement without Melkor.
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Re: Balrogs

Originally posted by Gloer
I think balrogs were originally Melkors maia.
They are describes as spirits of fire and their job was to help to mould the world in the beginning. I think they represent the destructive force that is essentially part of any creative work. When you create something new you have to cause a destruction for the old.

So balrogs were Melkors maia. What does that tell us about Melkors special area of ability?
Fire is not an element - it is a phenomena.
I think he was supposed to be the vala to govern the dynamics between the elements (water, air and earth/ Ulmo, Manwe and Aule). Thus he was in a position to rule the ballance of the elements.
He must have had a part of the power over each one, mainly a dynamic power: he could freeze water into glaciers or melt the earth in a vulcano.

So Melkor was supposed to be the judge between Manwe's, Ulmo's and Aule's regimes. He instead wanted to be the dictator over them and the three had to make a multilateral arragement without Melkor.
I never ment that the balrogs were of Aule. But they were indeed maia and melkor corrupted them. It is aslo said that Aule is most alike to melkor of all the maia.
 

Úlairi

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Bragollach!!!

:D :D :D To Bragollach, I was the one that posted the 'Sauron's real name' thread, it was much debated and two possible names came up. Thu and Fankil (sorry, I believe I wrote Falkin, I got it mixed yp!). Here are is a quote on the subject:

"Fankil and many dark shapes moved into the world."
It says later in the same book that Fankil = Fangli / Fukil and is also known as the child of Melkor.

I hope that clears some things up! I personally believe that Fankil was Sauron as do many others.:D :D :D
 

Hama

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Gloer: a couple of things. First of all I don't think that Balrogs were originally Maiar of Melkor. You must remember that Arien, the Maia who drove the sun was one of them who was not corrupted. Had the Balrogs originally been Melkor's Maiar then there would be no need to corrupt them and there would not be any who remained in ME.
If you have some literary reference to that fact could you provide it?
Secondly, Fire was considered an element in the ancient and medieval world, and up to the discovery of oxygen by Joseph Priestly in 1776, it was believed by many chemists to be an element. If you count air, water and earth as elements, fire is usually numbered as the fourth.
 

Hama

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Sorry, getting back to the subject of this thread, I think the reason so many of the Maiar of Aule were succeptible to corruption by Melkor was the fact that they all liked power and skill and were hungry for knowledge. Remember the elves of Eregion fell to Sauron's charms for the same reason in the second age. Feanor and many Noldor, because of their skill were also plagued by this. The Noldor were closest to Aule among the Elves (just like the Vanyar were to Manwe and the Teleri were to Ulmo) A zealous drive for knowledge and power seems to be a recurring theme in Tolkien's works.
 

Úlairi

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:D :D :D Yes Hama, that is correct. Aule was the Valar of crafts, and his Maia were also into crafts. They probably were offered better knowledge in craft also by Melkor. What do you think Aule would have thought of the Ring?:confused: :D :D
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Originally posted by Ulairi
:D :D :D Yes Hama, that is correct. Aule was the Valar of crafts, and his Maia were also into crafts. They probably were offered better knowledge in craft also by Melkor. What do you think Aule would have thought of the Ring?:confused: :D :D

I dont think he would have given much attention 2 it. Not all maia were into crafts a lot of them walked in the gardens of lorien.
 

Úlairi

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I recall somewhere that Aule would have been quite interested in it and would not destroy it simply because of that. Hey, here's a thought, what if he made a Ring to control the One? How cool would that be?
 

UngattTrunn475

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A ring to control Illuvatar? Never. But if it was made by Aule, Manwe would probably take it away from Aule, and destroy it.
 

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