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Ancalagon

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Do you see any problems between Christianity and the promotion of the use of Sorcery, Magic or Wizardry?
 

Legolas_lover12

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hey i am a christain. and i think there are a few more around here. i have seen a few bible verses in signatures.

~God Bless:D
 

HLGStrider

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Hey, Angonclan...

If you mean can one be a witch and a Christian at the same time, I really don't think so becaue the process involves selling out to Satan.

Since all things are lawful for me to do but not necessarily good for me to do (I can't pinpoint the verse) I don't see any problem with watching or reading some magic stuff. If it is insulting towards your faith or sense of right and wrong you probably shouldn't be watching it and probably if you think about it you wouldn't want to.

I'm sorry no ones answered your question yet.

"Magic" comes in varrying levels.

The occult: getting powers from Satan. This is obviously bad and harmful.

Magic tricks: Come on. These are pranks.

Tolkien style powers: If you don't like them don't read them. I think they represent the difference between good and bad and they are beneficial.

Potter style almost farcical stuff: I wouldn't dwell on it and I wouldn't let little kids read it, but I think if one knows right from wrong it isn't that harmful. Just as long as it doesn't become an obsession. (Haven't read. saw the movie once... I don't know exactly what's in them. This is just from hearing about the books.)

I think being obsessed with one's image or pocket book is more harmful than reading fantasy.

The only fantasy series I quit reading for moral reasons was the Wheel of Time one... and that was because the characters were taking off their clothing far too often... nothing to do with magic.
 

Ciryaher

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I define "sorcery" as power used for one's self or for evil in general. However, I also think some of the "magic" that is the essence of Faith can be used for God's work. Take some of the miracles of healing that have been seen. I don't call this "magic", but it is basically of a similar nature; God's strength which I believe is everywhere in the universe as an intangible, undetectible essence that can be used by those with the will to do good deed's in the name of our Lord.

I also think that the essence of evil is in the universe, and it is tapped by the darker elements of society in various ways for the purpose of all manner of evil.
 

Maedhros

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The occult: getting powers from Satan. This is obviously bad and harmful.
Hmmmm. Actually it's not that simple. There are various currents that to christians would be considered Satanist.
There are some, for example, that use the concept of Left-Hand Path.
These persons are against the concept of an "external god". Those people who make their "stuff" is not to be confused with the Judaeo/Christian West has been called Satanism.
They, unlike the christians are a more intellectual demanding "religion", instead of the herd mentality that could be attributed to many christians.
Just a tought.
 

Arathin

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I just want to tell you all from the start, although Cir already knows, I am wiccan (a witch) and am very proud to be one. Elgee, you are wrong. One doesn't have to sell out to Satan to be wiccan. (I will be using wiccan through all of this as it is the proper term for a witch or warlock.) Now I believe in God, although I am not Christain, and I am wiccan. I know some wiccans who have sold out to Satan, but I haven't. I only practice my magic to help people. Magic isn't evil. I believe the earth is a living being, Gaia, and I believe in a supreme God-figure whom I have taken the Jewish name for, Yahwah. I am sorry if any of you find it offence that I am wiccan, but I had to set it straight that not all who are wiccan are evil or have sold out/worship Satan. In fact, my apprentice is a good moral Christain and he is also training to be wiccan. I am sorry if you think I should now be burned at the stake, but that is just my opinion and two cents.
 

Ancalagon

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Now that is a perspective I find interseting. Arathin, my wonderous Wiccan friend; how are are you viewed by Christians in New England, considering N.E.s shameful past? Can you be open about your beleifs and are locals tolerant? I am genuinely interested to know your thoughts.
 

Arathin

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Ok GW I tried to pm you back but couldn't. Yes I am really truly wiccan. I cast spells and everything. Even have raise a dead spirit for someone so they could tell their husband they loved him as he died in a car crash.

Ancalagon, most people ignore NE's shameful wiccan past. In fact, almost all the people in Salem are wiccan and come out to tell people all the time. They, I doubt, are truly wiccan, but what can I say? Most of the time, religion doesn't come up in conversation. Most people don't mind. I have a lot of Christian and even Catholic, as I go to a Catholic school, friends, and they don't mind at all. They think it is great that I have a religion I feel confortable with and can accept. I have always had a hard time accepting some things about most religions, but not with wiccanism. I believe that all things on earth are part of the earth being, Gaia. I believe that God rules over us all, and that Jesus was God's son. I also believe that we are all God's children, but then I call up spirits and demons to do my bidding and help people. You have no idea how useful demons can be. I mean I created a form of demon and called them Whip Nymphs. They are amazingly useful as they obey only me and not the Demon Lords. They are the ones you have to watch out for. They are basically wiccans totally under Satan's power. Most of them are no longer truly living, but are sorta half-demon half-human and are immortal like that. Kinda like the Nazgul, I guess.
 

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I read in a fantasy dictionary that there are Black and White witches. Black sell out to Satan. White worship pagan Gods. I don't believe there can be a good witch, because Idolotary is a sin either way. Anyway, I see Wicans as misguided, but I don't think I could convince a wican of that. Anyway,
There can only be one God. Otherwise they would fight and we'd be back to ancient greece.
 

Arathin

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I would love to know how you guys, non-wiccans, know so much about wiccanism that you can prove a wiccan wrong. How would you know that a wiccan can't be good? or that they can't worship one God? You are just like those who burnt my kind in the middleages. You judge without prove. Yeah I am wiccan! Yeah I worship one God almighty! Yeah I consent that Jesus is his son. How would you know what we wiccans believe if you aren't wiccan? We don't parade our religion around like Christians do. We practice in secret for fear of our own safety for the most part. People who judge first than think, like your little no witch can be good comment, they are the ones we have to hide from. People like that are the ones who hunted us down, exiled us from society, and burnt our home and us with them. I am sorry to those whom I have offened, but we do love peace and we only try to help, with the exception of the Demon Lords. The Demon Lords are the only ones who have sold out to Satan, and most of us believe in one God. I don't know a single pagan wicca. NOT ONE!!! hrmm.... sorry for that out burst, but that is like calling a Jew a Nazi, and if I ever find out some one did that! I will not hesitate to send demons after them, as I have a lot of Jewish blood in me, and was raised on what happened to my ancesters in Nazi torture camps. I am going to end this now before I really get ****ed off. You don't hear screaming ringing in your ears when you think about WWII and what happened to those poor Jewish people. I do!
 

Ciryaher

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Morning star and HLG, to pass judgement on someone without full knowledge is called Predjudice. Taken to the extreme, you get things like the Crusades, the Inquisition, Joan d'Arc, the Ku Klux Klan, and Witch-Hunts.

And who are YOU to say who is good or bad? Only God/Allah/Yahweh/etc. Can pass judgement on what is right and wrong, good and bad. Live your live according to the teachings of Christ and don't worry about what others do just because it's not like what YOU do.
 

Rangerdave

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Originally posted by Arathin
You are just like those who burnt my kind in the middleages.
First and foremost I must assert that religious tolerance is a must if this Forum is to survive. Therefore, I ask all members to use tact and respect when dealing with another member’s metaphysical beliefs or creeds. Any attacks on spiritual beliefs will be considered by this moderator at least as a personal attack on the member directly and will be promptly deleted.

Now that I have said that, I must respectfully point out a few problems I have with the above quote.
No Wiccans were burned in the Middle Ages, simply because there were no Wiccans in the Middle Ages. Wicca as a faith can only be traced back to the writings of Charles Leland (1824-1903) who wrote Aradia: Gospel of the Witches in 1899. In fact, Sir Gerald Gardner first coined the term Wicca in 1934. Wicca is a relatively modern faith/belief, although loosely based on neo-celtic mysticism, and can not be considered a direct link to mediaeval paganism. However, this is not to say that the belief system is faulty. So while Wicca may or may not feel a familiarity with the so-called witches burned during the reformation and counterreformations, they are not the directly related faiths. Religion is by its very nature a personal relationship. No religion or faith is in itself either good or evil that its practitioners make it so.

On a personal note to Arathin: You have found a belief system that helps you make sense of the universe and allow you to grow as a person, I think this is a truly good thing. Faith can be an amazing thing, and I applaud you for it. My own metaphysical beliefs lean more toward agnosticism with Taoist tendencies, and as such I consider all branches of faith simply extensions of each other.

Thank you for allowing me to ramble on like this
RD
 

Arathin

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Hrmmm....

Wiccans are witchs and warlocks. Witchs and warlocks are wiccans. WE perfer the term wiccan as it is usable for both genders and is less covered in blood. This is how I and all wiccans I know feel about it, or would you perfer me to say This is how I and all witchs and warlocks I know feel about it.?
 

Rangerdave

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Well I for one would hope that you speak only for yourself, Speaking for all Wiccans is like speaking for all males or all Anglos. It can't be done realistically. My point was simply that the word Wiccan was not used to describe any sort of worship or belief system prior to the late Victorian age. This is not a reproach or attack on anyone’s beliefs, simply an examination of the word in question. Or to put it simply, what you consider a Witch is not what the narrow minded such as Oliver Cromwell, the Spanish Inquisition or Pat Buccahannan would consider a Witch. (Although Cromwell thought the Pope was a witch and Pat still does) It’s really just a question of semantics.

I would like to kindly request that the term Wiccan be used for the modern associations to avoid confusion with the stereotypical crone/witch found in the likes of MacBeth.

Thanks
RD
 

HLGStrider

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Truth is not realative
There is good and bad
Only one religion can be true and while that doesn't mean that the others are evil it does mean that they are wrong. Every religion has some truth in them, but only one has all the truth in it, and I believe that religion to be Christianity.
Yeah I am wiccan! Yeah I worship one God almighty! Yeah I consent that Jesus is his son. How would you know what we wiccans believe if you aren't wiccan?
Okay, if you believe that God is the Lord and that Jesus is His son then why aren't you a Christian... If you believe that Jesus died for your sins and because of Him you are forgiven and bound for heaven someday it sounds very much like you are. That's the basic principle.

I read about Witches in a dictionary of fantasy things which was actually very nice towards them (Saying they were useful to have around), though I do not know what the difference between Witches and Modern Wiccans is.

Now Arathin I think you are getting defensive. I have no proof about anything, but neither do you. I know that what you claim to do is forbidden in the Bible. I believe the Bible to be absolute truth (And I'm willing to suffer humiliation for it). I know that you see no harm in it. Personally I see some harm in doing anything that involves devilish forces, but you seem to be doing the modern day "earth force" thing. That is harmful in that it worships the created rather than the creator, but I don't think I would mind too much having one living next to me. I would just not give my approval to what they were doing.

There are a lot of things that I believe are wrong but would not outlaw. You can't outlaw adultry or other deviant sexual behavior. You can't outlaw lying, accept as a violation of contracts. You can't outlaw dishonoring ones parents.

Religious freedom is part of our country, and I'm glad it is. You can't force someone into your religion and trying puts you in the wrong.

Christians "push" their religion because they believe that someday we are all going to have a choice that will give us over to heaven or hell, and I can't think of anyone who I would willingly let slip away to hell if I had the choice. However, it isn't my choice. It is theirs. God isn't going to pull people to Heaven by the hair. If they want to go to hell He lets them. It's not a matter of doing anything. It's a matter of saying "okay, God, I'll let you adoupt me."
 
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