The Doom of Mandos
'Tears unnumbered ye shall shed; and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains. On the House of Fëanor the wrath of the Valar lieth from the West unto the uttermost East, and upon all that will follow them it shall be laid also. Their Oath shall drive them, and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end shall all things turn that they begin well; and by treason of kin unto kin, and the fear of treason, shall this come to pass. The Dispossessed shall they be for ever.
'Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteously and have stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow. For though Eru appointed to you to die not in Eä, and no sickness may assail you, yet slain ye may be, and slain ye shall be: by weapon and by torment and by grief; and your houseless spirits shall come then to Mandos. There long shall ye abide and yearn for your bodies, and find little pity though all whom ye have slain should entreat for you. And those that endure in Middle-earth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden, and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after. The Valar have spoken.'
As much as you try to deny the obvious, Maedhros, it appears to me that it was a threat. A warning, telling the Noldor not to travel to ME, or else.Originally posted by Maedhros
Let's look at the current events in the rebellion of the Ñolor:
Slaying of the Ñoldóran.
Rebellion of Fëanor in the Ring of Doom.
The Ñoldor begin to flee from Tirion.
Receive a message from Manwë to restrain their going and stay because it will not end well and the hour was evil.
Ñoldor reach Alqualondë, Teleri refuse to aid them, the Kinslaying.
Ñoldor reach the Wastes of Araman and then the Doom of Mandos.
The warning to the Ñoldor had alredy come to them by the messanger of Manwë. After the kinslaying, Námo cursed the ones that would go to ME. There were some, who were sad because of the Kinslaying and after hearing of the curse, chose to seek the pardon of the Valar. It was a curse directed at the house of Fëanor and those who chose to follow him to ME. Simple. And it was fulfilled utterly. The exiled Ñoldor who were not killed, were stricken with grief for the lost of their loves ones
It partly worked, in that it changed Finarfin and his people's minds. They didn't go to ME. They heeded the warning. They thought "Hey, wouldn't it be a good idea to stay here, and not have to go through all that trouble?".
The Doom worked on them. But it's purpose (to keep the Noldor in Valinor) did not come to pass, as the Sons of Fëanor and their followers ignored the warning, and went on their merry way to ME.
The Valar did not decide "Hmm, those Noldor are becoming annoying- let's give them pain and suffering until the end of time".
No, the Valar loved the Noldor. They knew what was best for them: to stay in Valinor. So they made up the Doom of Mandos to warn the Noldor to stay in Valinor.
But it did not work. It was a failure.
You appear to be clutching at straws, dear Maedhros, and rather short ones at that.Originally posted by Maedhros
Valinor was indeed fenced, and Eärendil was only able to reach it because of the power of the Silmaril, which contained the light of the trees that were made by Yavanna. Ahhhhhh. So using the power of the Valar they were able to overcome their fencing. Ahhhhh.
The Doom does not say "and the Valar will fence Valinor against you, and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains unless you have a Silmaril; in which case we will gladly accept you back, and take back this Doom."
It says that they will not allow them back into Valinor, period.
But what happened? One of the little buggers snuck through the 'fence' and reached Valinor.
And let us not forget the eagle that Manwë sent to Fingon in pity for Maedhros' (once again, the elf, not the debater ) precarious position. Fingon prayed to the Valar for pity, and Manwë sent an eagle to help carry Fingon to the bound Maedhros, and to fly them
away from Thangorodruin.
Fingon's lamentation certainly reached the Valar there...
Therefore, that part of the Doom did not come to pass.
So Manwë over-ruled the Doom before it could come to pass entirely?Originally posted by Maedhros
Manwë, being the Elder King and the vice regent of Ilúvatar, could over ride the decision to let the Ñoldor come back to Valinórë and to assail Morgoth.
Doesn't sound as if it were completed...and therefore it mustn't have achieved it's secondary purpose of punishing the Sons of Fëanor and their followers for not heeding this threat beforehand.
So we have determined that this warning/punishment did not achieve it's purpose in that:
A/. It did not prevent the Sons of Fëanor from leaving to pursue Morgoth.
B/. It's predicted punishment did not come 100% true.
C/. It was called off by Manwë before it's resulting punishment had entirely come to pass.
Edit: Fixed a couple of vB code errors. Sorry.