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Elf anatomy

gimli_alvevenn

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Is Tolkien and todays man races the same?

I was reading a thread today, when I came to think of one thing; Is the race of men in middle earth the same race that walk on the earth today?
What diferencesare are there, if you do not think so?
 

Lantarion

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Yes I think so, because of the ending of the LotR: it ends with the beginning of the 4th Age, the Age of Men. This would mean that at that time the Elves, Dwarves and Hobbits (along with other non-human races) began to vanish, and Men became the ruling species on Earth (at least Middle-Earth).
But in the old times depicted in the Sil and LotR (ie. Númenor, Beleriand, Arnor+Gondor) Men grew old slower and had longer lives (esp. Elros= 500 years!!), and they had stronger and more prevalent morals and codes of chivalry. Well, need I say more. :rolleyes:
 

Anarchist

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I agree with Pontifex. Tolkien implied that the world of ME is the same world we live today and that slowly all the species left ME and only men remained there and so it is until today.
 

Meliaiel

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i think only Men remained in ME not because they were strongest;to my mind it just was doomed,it was the will of Iluvatar.because for example Elves indeed were a kind of,em,'higher' race than Men,still they left,and Edain stayed.
 

UngattTrunn475

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Originally posted by Pontifex

But in the old times depicted in the Sil and LotR (ie. Númenor, Beleriand, Arnor+Gondor) Men grew old slower and had longer lives (esp. Elros= 500 years!!), and they had stronger and more prevalent morals and codes of chivalry. Well, need I say more. :rolleyes:
Elros was half-elven in the beginning, and the Valar gave him the choice to be either a elf, or a man. He chose to be a man, but he was granted a longer lifespan. So really, Elros wasn't fully man.
 

Nocturno

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As a general rule, we might be nearer to "lesser men" as Tolkien calls them.
Númenóreans were in many cases of mixed blood with elves and the rest were granted a greater lifespan due tu Valar will.
Men stronger?
I guess their strenght was supposed to lie in the fact that they multiplied heavily, and, since not inmortal, did not have time to grow weary of the world.
it appears dwarves and elves did not follow that pattern of fertility.
About hobbits, well, I'd hate to know what would happen to them centuries later if they were left alone with men...
 

Elbereth

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There is definately a connection with the races of men in Tolkien's books, with our written history.

* If you look in the bible, you see many of the characters (Adam, Noah, ect...) living to be hundreds of years old. (Dunedain)

* It is known in learned circles that many ancient people were indeed much shorter than man is today (Hobbits). However, over time the race of man adapted and changed to suit their environment. Therefore men today are taller, have smaller skulls, and are generally weaker than our forefathers. (We even see today that in most western societies the current generation is healthier and smarter than our grandparents.) Therefore it is very possible to believe that Hobbits are still amoung us today. Tolkien himself, said that he considered himself to be a hobbit in everything but height.

* We also hear of folklore talking of dwarfs and little people...who's to say that these creatures never existed? And who knows...if these creature can hide themselves so well, they could still be with us today.

****That's Just a little food for thought.*****
 
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ReadWryt

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Um...it's a mythology, lets not loose sight of that. Being a Mythology for England, set in an imaginary time some 6000 years ago, one could assume that Tolkien intended it, as nearly all Mythologies of the Earth are, to be the story of how Mankind started out and became what they are today. Name me one mythology that does not include Men...I don't think you will find one.
 

Nocturno

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Actually, mithology is supposed to be a residue on the back of our minds from ages long gone.
It is said that our short people and giant myths, are residues of thousands of years ago, when men actually fought with other man-like races for the dominion of earth.
It is a fact that the actual homo sapiens coexisted with other "branches" of protohumans (i.e. Neanderthals). Some were bigger, some were smaller. It seems humans almost wiped them from the face of the earth in those forgotten times.
Some may have joined our blood heritage by good old love.

My fun sometimes, when I walk on a big city's streets (like Mexico) is to try and connect myth with reality. Some people seem to have a lot of dwarf blood in them (too hairy, short, broad), some people might resemble elves (or the idea we have of them, as lighter in build, tall, etc.), and some might be cute and small enough to pass as hobbits... well, and some could have orcish blood, why not.

Wouldn't it be fun to think that modern humans are a fruit of the joining of different races? It would be nice to think they are all here with us to this day.
 

Elbereth

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I agree Nocturno...it would be nice to think that we are all derived from the many races of Middle Earth, and that in some way or another they are still here today.

Actually, about 8 years ago...(before I even read a Tolkien book), my friend and I came up with a theory of the origins of man (please bear in mind we were riding on a very mightly sugar high at the time)...

We believed that man derived from either sick monkeys or hairy hobbits. And the way you could tell if you are one or the other is by your toe hairs. Those people who have hair on their toes came from Hobbits, and those without came from sick monkeys.

I know it is a silly theory...but we thought it was hillarious.:D
 

Glory

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well that would explain why my sister eat so much she is pretty much like a hobbit!!!:p
 
R

ReadWryt

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Um...so the Quest for the Grail and the Arthurian Mythology is based on some primordial memories in the genetics of mankind? I think not, nor do I think Homer's works relate such deep rooted memories. They all tend to relate fundimental struggles that are rich in humanity and commonality, but I think that you would be hard pressed to say that the stories of the Greek Gods were, in any way, based on actual experiences of ancient man...

Mythology is more often a way that the ancient and unsophisticated mind of early humanity attempted to explain the things that were beyond their comprehension. It is perfectly logical, given the lack of knowlege and intelect, for ancient peoples to believe that the world came into existence because a giant crow stole the seed for it from some Great Spirit, or that some God molded it with their hands and placed it on the back of a giant tortoise...or even that a great Diety sang, and the discordant accompaniment of his Angelic Beings made the world in all of it's rich complexity...what THESE things have to do with the realities of ancient peoples is beyond me, as I have not the experience of their world, nor their perception of it as it existed...but I seriously doubt that any of them actually saw a Tortoise large enough to support the Earth, or a Crow that large...
 

Úlairi

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I am curious, does anyone believe that the Elf anatomy was somewhat different to the anatomy of humankind. Luthien and Beren had a child so obviously the sexual reproduction organs were the same, I can't really think of anything different except the pointy ears! Any opinions???
 

Úlairi

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Elf anatomy!

I am curious, does anyone believe that the Elf anatomy was somewhat different to the anatomy of humankind. Luthien and Beren had a child so obviously the sexual reproduction organs were the same, I can't really think of anything different except the pointy ears! Any opinions???:confused: :confused: :confused:
 

daisy

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I am also fairly sure that Arwen and Aragorn had children and she was a full-blooded elf and he was a human - so reproduction was the way it usually is I believe - no hatching from pods.
I don't think there are many creatures in LOTR that did not reproduce the 'old-fashioned' way with the exception of course of orcs and some of the monstery things and the valar - I am pretty sure they were just there one day, although don't quote me on that!

No baby Gandalf is what I am saying - although this would have been a cute thing to see!
 

Úlairi

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Yeah! That would be a sight to see. I can just imagine Manwe and Varda saying:

"Ohhhhh, isn't he a cutie! Goooogie, goooogie, goooooo!" says Varda.

"He takes after me, very wise kid!" says Manwe.
 

Wood Elf

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I think they pretty much had the same anatomy as humans, just better. Like a super-human. I also like to think their pointy ears was a way of distinguishing between elves and men. Elves also had a light in their eyes that was a special feature of elves (they are awesome!). Besides being more super-human, and having pointy ears and a light in their eyes, I think they were the same in every other way to humans.
 

daisy

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Also - who knows about Bombadil? Probably not a 'normal'creation there either.
And I guess the ents rely on angiosperm pollination like other trees - or gymno, I can't remember which.
Depends on if they have pinecones or are flowering plants.;)
 

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