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English 101

Beorn

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To tell you the truth, some people on here cannot use the English language for their life. I grant some leeway to those who did not learn English as their first language, but some things are unacceptable. So, come learn English. . .even though I hate it, it's a common form of communication.

So, I hereby implement English 101 on the forum.

Anyone wishing to join should PM me, with the answers to the following questions, with examples:

What is normally used at the end of a complete thought?
What type of letter is used at the beginning of a sentence?

There will be ten lessons of increasing difficulty, and people completing the course shall receive a shortcut across Ancalagon's Riddle Bridge (not really. . .) and a certificate of completion.
 
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Greenleaf

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Good grief, does it really bug you that much? No offence but maybe you should practice a little tolerance. Yes it is kind of annoying when some one does not use proper English. But IMO it is even more annoying when other people get really weird about it (that comment was not directed at you). That is just my 2 cents.
 

Beorn

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When you need to read 4 half page posts by someone who cannot spell where correctly (along with many other things), and doesn't use capitialization correctly, and find a total of 7 periods for two pages, it becomes quite annoying.
 

Aerin

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I totally agree with Mike on this point.
If English is not your first language, then spelling and grammar mistakes are fine; it doesn't really matter. As long as what you post is understandable, it is fine! :)
What does bug me is people who speak English (especially Americans), but do not know how to properly utilize the language. Occasional spelling errors are not a problem (I know I've misspelled a word or two :p ), but posts that are riddled with spelling mistakes are hard to read. Oftentimes, I find myself sounding the word out to find out what they posted, and sometimes I have to go back and re-read their post to see what they meant by their post.

I realize that many people use the Internet shortcuts for spelling when they use instant messengers, but it is rather annoying to see a post that looks something like "i just tink thatz the way 2 go lol".
Tolerance... hm, I think most of the people on this forum are quite tolerant. I do not think that any real mention of complaints (such as this) has surfaced any time recently.

Obviously, with the huge number of new members because of the release of the movie, more and more people are coming here and posting. The number of posts (and even the mistakes contained within those posts) do not bother me too much. It's when people use an almost completely foreign language on the forum (so I cannot understand what they said), and then complain about people not posting, or posting something different from what they said; that gets annoying.

For people to whom English is a second language: I cannot say anything against spelling or grammar mistakes. English is a difficult language to master, even when it is learned as a first language.
If I was to join a French internet message board, I could only hope to do as well with my posts as many of the people on here do.

Even though I agree with Mike on how annoying spelling and grammar mistakes can be; I do differ with him when it comes to the English 101 course. That is rather taking it to the extreme, Mike...:rolleyes:

Greenleaf: I think we all need to practice tolerance...
 

Nimawae's hope

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I am in agreement here too. Most of the time I simply put up with the bad grammar and poor spelling. However, sometimes both are so bad that the reader can barely understand what is being posted. Some people do like to understand what they read. Furthermore, it is always a temptation to me to make fun of those who can't spell, and it is difficult to restrain myself. If this temptation is taken away from me, my life will be much easier!
 

daisy

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On behalf of learning disabled, dyslexic, dysgraphic students who have difficulty reading and writing but still have things that are important and interesting to say, a plague on all your houses!!

Hey guys, why don't you whip out the periodic table of elements and rhyme off the Bohr-Rutherford model of the atomic stucture of neon, boron, and fluoride - my point being some people have problems in certain areas but still have other strengths and need a chance and some understanding....
Not everyone who has English as a first language is able to be fluent in it.
 

Adrastea

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Right now, I am sitting at the computer, with the dictionary and lord of the rings beside me. I am not good at spelling or grammar.

And as soon as I came to this Forum, I knew that I would need the dictionary beside me. I always use it, and I always read my posts over a few times before I send it. I say to, whoever isn't the worlds best speller, get a dictionary beside you and use it. And If you believe it or not, this forum has helped my spelling. I have noticed that I can spell a whole lot better from posting on here. I actually have to write down what I would say if I was speaking to them in person.
So I say Thank you to this forum and everyone on it...You have shown me the value of spelling correctly.
 

Ancalagon

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[email protected];

Don't worry Chipster, you are certainly not the only one. I have my tattered copies of The Rings, my old Silmarillion paperback, Unfinished Tales paperback, HOME on the floor, David Days - Tolkien Bestiary and my trusty Dictionary and Thesaurus which never leave my side.

My grammar is pretty poor at the best of times, but since I am Irish and am partial to the odd Stout and Bushmills, I refer to it more often than not, problem is I can't usually see the words by that time!
 

Aerin

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Chippy, I think that reading over your post at least once before you post it is an excellent idea. I try to do that, if only to make sure that the idea of my post is clear and concise. (Often, I have either completely changed my post or did not post because the point I had to make was either too vague or did not fit the subject at hand.)

Books beside the computer, books on my bed, books on my desk, books in all rooms of the house, I have books everywhere! I have the dictionaries (usually) near the computer, and I use them all the time. Using dictionaries is a great way of learning new things every day (why do I sound like one of those child television programs? :rolleyes:)

***edited by Ancalagon by request***
 
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Grond

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mike b, i think that people shud be free to xpress themslves on the forum. this may not always mean they use the most porper englush but that they really wont to try and participate. we must be willing to give them breaks and let dem contribut. :)
 
R

ReadWryt

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Actually, the fact is that nobody "needs" to read anything that is not spelled properly or that contains improper grammar or does not adhere to the conventions of English at all...It's as if someone was holding a gun to some member's head and forcing them to read ALL the posts that annoy them, when in fact such posts can just as easily be ignored...

It seems to me that anyone who feels compelled to attempt to teach english to people who so adequately avoided learning it from Professional Instructors and a multi-trillion dollar Education System because it annoys them to "need" to read poorly written posts should re-evaluate the motives behind this burning desire to be the Mother Teresa of the Literary World and determine if they are really trying to make change for the better.
 

Beorn

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On behalf of learning disabled, dyslexic, dysgraphic students who have difficulty reading and writing but still have things that are important and interesting to say, a plague on all your houses!!

Hey guys, why don't you whip out the periodic table of elements and rhyme off the Bohr-Rutherford model of the atomic stucture of neon, boron, and fluoride - my point being some people have problems in certain areas but still have other strengths and need a chance and some understanding....
Not everyone who has English as a first language is able to be fluent in it.
Yes, but not everyone uses the periodic table every day of their lives. It is expected that you do not know the periodic table, unless you said you did. Conversely, it is expected that you know the English langauge and can use it well, unless you say that perhaps you have a learning disorder. My friend has a learning disorder: she cannot remember the order of much easily. She can't remember her own phone number, but she knows the digits. She can't spell all too well, yet she is going to BU (on an academic scholarship no less). Yet all she needs to do is say that she has a learning disorder that causes her to have trouble remember orders. So, any disabled, dyslexic, or dysgraphic people, all you need to do is raise your voice and it'll be understood.

mike b, i think that people shud be free to xpress themslves on the forum. this may not always mean they use the most porper englush but that they really wont to try and participate. we must be willing to give them breaks and let dem contribut.
*Beorn pokes Grond*
Yes, but could they at least do the courtesy to us to make an attempt to spell correctly.

Actually, the fact is that nobody "needs" to read anything that is not spelled properly or that contains improper grammar or does not adhere to the conventions of English at all...It's as if someone was holding a gun to some member's head and forcing them to read ALL the posts that annoy them, when in fact such posts can just as easily be ignored...
Yes, but RW, what happens when you ignore someone? That just makes a person stupider. I've not a single person on my ignore list. You can't learn anything from them even though they might be very intelligent yet they cannot spell correctly. If they would spell correctly they are less likely to be ignored, and therefore will receive more replies, aside from appearing brighter.

It seems to me that anyone who feels compelled to attempt to teach english to people who so adequately avoided learning it from Professional Instructors and a multi-trillion dollar Education System because it annoys them to "need" to read poorly written posts should re-evaluate the motives behind this burning desire to be the Mother Teresa of the Literary World and determine if they are really trying to make change for the better.
I'm rather trying to get people to use better English if at all possible. There were two points stressed were capitalization and punctuation (especially periods!), not making sure you put spaces between your periods for an ellipsis, and not using & at the correct time (as opposed to "and").
 
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Aerin

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I can understand the viewpoint that some dyslexic students have a harder time writing and having people understand them. I have classes at school with learning disabled people, and I have no problem understanding what they're saying. They may not have an extensive vocabulary, but they get their point across all the same. (In fact, my third grade teacher was dyslexic....)

Speaking is quite different from writing. When speaking, body movement and expression help to convey the speaker's point. When writing, the same words may be used, but can be interpreted entirely differently.
For example, the phrase "I love you" can be said many different ways: when being heartfelt, sarcastic, playful, or as one would say it to a child. When written, the reader relies only on the context. (Oftentimes messages, be they in instant messages or posts, are taken the "wrong way". Tone of voice is very important in determining the difference between sarcasm and sincerity.)

Spelling mistakes can be annoying, but they are usually not that much of a problem, unless the writer makes an attempt to spell the words incorrectly...Grond...:D
What I find slightly annoying is when I literally have to sound out a post to determine what is being said. The occasional spelling error does not phase me in the least, especially if the writer just mixed up the keys while typing. For example, the word "definite" is often spelled "definate". Paying too much attention to mistakes such as that is time consuming and rather pointless.
I must say, I find it rather humourous to read a post in which the writer says "I can't bare it any longer" (or something to that effect). The correct spelling is "bear", as in 'bearing a burden'. When spelled "bare", it means to not be covered...:D

Punctuation helps writing in many ways. It not only helps the reader to make more sense of what is written, but it can give emphasis on certain parts of the text, and it breaks the post up so reading it is easier on the eye. Many people do not know the little rules for where to insert a semi colon or a colon, an apostrophe, or a comma; but if people were simply to insert periods and spaces into their posts, it would make it much simpler to understand.

Ack!! Two minutes before the bell.... Must sign off! :D
 

Asha'man

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I, too, detest people who appear to be chronically unable to spell or punctuate, especially the latter. I am chronically unable to remember to utilize my ignore list, or there would be a ton of people on it. :)

One thing that really bugs me is the improper sentence structure that is so rampant, especially in RP-type posts. You know what I mean - "He walked into the bar. Where he then sat down." Ack! The second "sentence" isn't one! Get that through your heads people (you know who you are - unless you're reading this thinking, "That sounded okay to me", in which case you have my pity. :rolleyes: )

Some other things that bug me are antonyms - like "by" for "buy", "bare" for "bear" (like Aerin said), or other words like that. I don't care if you are a horrible speller, look it up in the dictionary like many of our more upstanding members do.

Also, common typos that get overlooked when you re-read your post before posting it. You all do that, don't you? I mean stupid stuff like "liek", "teh", "adn" and so on. I make those mistakes when I'm typing fast, but I *re-read* my post and catch them!! Take a few seconds, people, and it'll make you look a lot smarter.

Sheesh.

Asha'man
 

Aerin

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Ash, I didn't want to turn this into an accusatory thread! :rolleyes:

Yes, spelling, grammar, and puncuation errors annoy me, but I can live with them.
Re-reading your post is always a good idea, even if it is just to review your main idea and see if the point you are making is the one you intended.

*sigh* It must be hard, with nobody being able to be as perfect as the Asha'man...:D :D
 
M

Mormegil

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I think that it is a good idea to re-read what you have typed before posting. But if some spelling mistakes or typo's are missed, then we shouldn't chastise people for it. This forum is here so that people can chat about the works of Tolkien, whether the are perfect in everyway or otherwise.

RW is right. If you don't like what someone has written, or the way that they have written or spelled it, then just ignore it.

C'mon people. Let's all get along.:)
 

Grond

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Despite cutting people loads of slack on their grammatical short comings, you will find the Grondster's posts almost always reflect edited by Grond on such and such, because I forget to check my post before I hit the submit button. And I am anal retentive when it comes to my own grammar and spelling. :)
 

Thorin

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I think there is a difference between making a typo and not being able to spell...You can usually tell the difference...I have absolutely no problems spelling...I do make a lot of typos that I don't proof-read.

Sometimes I ask myself if it is really worth it go in and change it. If it changes the meaning of the sentence or makes it sound stupid (i.e. forgetting an 'n' on 'an' ) I go back and change it, but if I accidentally switched my 'i's and 'e's around once , I usually just leave it....especially when I'm feeling lazy. I figure most people can tell that it was a typo and not an actual spelling error..
 

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