Gil-Galad
in love
I asked Manveru to replace him so,I believe that the debate can contiue.The topic is really very good one. 
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Exchange Debate Between GoT and GoE
- Thread starter Gil-Galad
- Start date
Manveru
(former)blue angel of GoT
Scatha said:
Hmm... I'm not from the GoE (though I fancy Elves a little... no, not in this way; c'mon...Gil-Galad said:
) so I can wait, Scatha, my pointy-eared friend... but if you can't find her/him, I guess it won't be a problem for me to debate... guess so, don't know yet (problems usually "occur" during...).
Gil-Galad
in love
Manv,I spoke with Scatha and he said there was no problem for you to debate.
So let us see the angel in action.
So let us see the angel in action.
Gil-Galad
in love
Having in mind this small problem I will give three more days to the debators.
The end of the debate is February 5th,06:26 A.M CET
I hope that it will be enough for you to make one interesting and pleasant debate.
The end of the debate is February 5th,06:26 A.M CET
I hope that it will be enough for you to make one interesting and pleasant debate.
omnipotent_elf
Omnipotent....mmm....good
Excellent - so we have found the question (i was lost for a few days, thisa would have been up sooner, but for RL)
Had Gandalf recognised the One Ring before Bilbo had returned to the Shire, would the Ring have been destroyed before the Rise of Sauron
On behalf of my time, I will open. There happens to be very little evidence from the novels, for this is a hypothetical question - but looking at some of the letters from tolkien, we, the opposing team (come on guys, we need a NAME *looks at team*) are proving this this statement could indeed be false.
Look at the possibilities. Sauron was indeed at Gul Duldur, But as this is hypothetical, why cant we simply assume that he stayed in Mordor. That Gandalf, instead of actually having to face against him, had instead stayed with the mission and helped the dwarves (and indeed bilbo). He could have found out, just like the rest of the dwarves, at the same time as them! So Sauron, in this time, could quite easily have built a much larger strength in Mordor, protecting mount Doom!!
Also, the reason why Frodo succeeded was, in some respects, due to the fellowship. Gandalf could quite easily have spent TIME finding a suitible group, but even without the "strength", Sauron still had the ringwraiths, at his disposal, in mordor which would have been more then adequate protection from the "destruction" of the ring.
Ok, this is just an openor, so my team, back me up!
(i was lost for a few days, thisa would have been up sooner, but for RL)Had Gandalf recognised the One Ring before Bilbo had returned to the Shire, would the Ring have been destroyed before the Rise of Sauron
On behalf of my time, I will open. There happens to be very little evidence from the novels, for this is a hypothetical question - but looking at some of the letters from tolkien, we, the opposing team (come on guys, we need a NAME *looks at team*) are proving this this statement could indeed be false.
Look at the possibilities. Sauron was indeed at Gul Duldur, But as this is hypothetical, why cant we simply assume that he stayed in Mordor. That Gandalf, instead of actually having to face against him, had instead stayed with the mission and helped the dwarves (and indeed bilbo). He could have found out, just like the rest of the dwarves, at the same time as them! So Sauron, in this time, could quite easily have built a much larger strength in Mordor, protecting mount Doom!!
Also, the reason why Frodo succeeded was, in some respects, due to the fellowship. Gandalf could quite easily have spent TIME finding a suitible group, but even without the "strength", Sauron still had the ringwraiths, at his disposal, in mordor which would have been more then adequate protection from the "destruction" of the ring.
Ok, this is just an openor, so my team, back me up!
Scatha
The dragon of wrath
The ringwraiths were brought back into life/power, long after Bilbo had found the one ring, thus they could not have played a real part in the prevention of the destruction, had Gandalf recognised the ring for what it was. Sauron himself was not even near mount doom, nor was there any large force to be reckoned with in mordor at that time.
If Gandalf would have recognised the ring sooner, when he laid eyes on it, then the destruction of it would have been so much simpler. With no real opposing force between the western kingdom and mount doom, the ring would have landed easily within the firey abyss, with less people lost in the process.
More elves were around at that time as well, to aid in bringing this ring to mordor, even more dwarves willing to do so.
So I fail to see where you think this is not the case.
If Gandalf would have recognised the ring sooner, when he laid eyes on it, then the destruction of it would have been so much simpler. With no real opposing force between the western kingdom and mount doom, the ring would have landed easily within the firey abyss, with less people lost in the process.
More elves were around at that time as well, to aid in bringing this ring to mordor, even more dwarves willing to do so.
So I fail to see where you think this is not the case.
Manveru
(former)blue angel of GoT
Geesh, maybe I'll be "the One" (no, not the ring) to spoil this great and breathtaking () debate, but, from my "shallow" part, I think that this topic isn't good to debate without too much "free interpretation" so to say... looks very one-sided, but maybe it's only me... don't wanna complain, though... no, Precious, nooooooo...
*flies away to dig some more on the matter... doubtfully*
) to spoil this great and breathtaking () debate, but, from my "shallow" part, I think that this topic isn't good to debate without too much "free interpretation" so to say... looks very one-sided, but maybe it's only me... don't wanna complain, though... no, Precious, nooooooo... *flies away to dig some more on the matter... doubtfully
*
omnipotent_elf
Omnipotent....mmm....good
I second Manv - this debate is too one sided.
An opinion
I think that in this stage of the debate (each team has posted at least once) the topic may only be discarded by common agreement between the two teams. It is an interpretation of the rules -- since this debate was staged differently than ordinary debates, with the "who posts first picks a side" rule. But I think it is a reasonable interpretation, and if someone asked me, that would be my opinion.
In other words, if you think the topic is one-sided, get the other team to agree with you. If they don't, well, do your best.
I know no one asked me, but I am watching this with interest and I am a big mouth.
I think that in this stage of the debate (each team has posted at least once) the topic may only be discarded by common agreement between the two teams. It is an interpretation of the rules -- since this debate was staged differently than ordinary debates, with the "who posts first picks a side" rule. But I think it is a reasonable interpretation, and if someone asked me
, that would be my opinion.In other words, if you think the topic is one-sided, get the other team to agree with you. If they don't, well, do your best
. I know no one asked me, but I am watching this with interest and I am a big mouth.
Manveru
(former)blue angel of GoT
No kiddingEriol said:
(just kidding)As for the rest... we do our best, but, well, it needs some "changes" in the history (I'm not going to "dare" that thing). Though, maybe not... I'm not familiar with "The Letters"...
Gil-Galad
in love
Well,I like the topic and actually there are som very interesting things which can be added,but it seems nobody sees them.
The debate should be over today,but if you want I will continue it with one more week?Do you want it?Or you do not like the topic?
The debate should be over today,but if you want I will continue it with one more week?Do you want it?Or you do not like the topic?
Bethelarien
The Lost Evenstar
Scatha and I have spoken about this, and if the other team wishes to change the topic, we will agree to it. Finuilas seems to find that acceptable as well. So, if the other team wishes it, we will accept a topic change.
Gil-Galad
in love
Ok,now it depends on the other team.
Let's see what they will say.
Let's see what they will say.
Scatha
The dragon of wrath
Excuse me, but now we have waited for two weeks, in vain, while it was the other team in the first place that started the issue on the topic. Can we either get on with this or blow it off?
Gil-Galad
in love
Ok,so you want a new topic?
Scatha
The dragon of wrath
As I stated earlier, almost everyone has agreed on a new topic. So what are we waiting for?