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Fëanor

Pippin

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Here is a good one (at least i see it as),

How do you think thins had turned if Fëanor`s father (right now i can remember the name) han´t got marry again?, Would Fëanor stilll listen to Melkor and all his things?





Pippin
 

Maedhros

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How do you think thins had turned if Fëanor`s father (right now i can remember the name) han´t got marry again?, Would Fëanor stilll listen to Melkor and all his things?
That's an interesting proposal Pippin. If Finwe (his father) wouldn't have married again. Hmmmmmm.
The wedding of his father was not pleasing to Fëanor; and he had no great love for Indis, nor for Fingolfin and Finarfin, her sons. He lived apart from them, exploring the land of Aman, or busying himself with the knowledge and the crafts in which he delighted. In those unhappy things which later came to pass, and in which Fëanor was the leader, many saw the effect of this breach within the house of Finwë, judging that if Finwë had endured his loss and been content with the fathering of his mighty son, the courses of Fëanor would have been otherwise, and great evil might have been prevented; for the sorrow and the strife in the house of Finwë is graven in the memory of the Noldorin Elves.
If Finwe had not wed Indis, then Feanor wouldn't have been exiled to Formenos, Melkor would have had to assail Finwe's house in Tirion to take the Silmarils.
If Finwe had been killed and the Silmarils stolen, the outcome would have been the same. Feanor would have gone to ME, swore the oath and then bring war to Morgoth, killing the Teleri and then the whole Doom of Mandos.
The only positive thing that i see is that the Noldor would have been united against Morgoth, not divided as they were in the Sil.
 

Maedhros

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In short nearly none of the major players of the second and third ages.
That's not neccesarily true. You see, there would have been no division among the Noldor, they would have provided a better front against Morgoth.
According to that interaction, there probably would have been other characters that took the place of the usual ones, thus providing for a different story.
 

Úlairi

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Originally posted by Maedhros

That's not neccesarily true. You see, there would have been no division among the Noldor, they would have provided a better front against Morgoth.
According to that interaction, there probably would have been other characters that took the place of the usual ones, thus providing for a different story.
Indefinitely, but I do not think a unified Noldor would counter Sauron as well as if Feanor hadn't been exiled. You see, it would be most probable that Celebrimbor wouldn't have made the Rings of Power in Eregion so the power of certain areas like Rivendell and Lorien therefore wouldn't have been in existence. If Sauron had come to ME, I believe he would have found it easier to control the Noldor seeing as most of them would most probably have been under the leadership of Feanor, who may have gained the Silmarils (how are they going to beat Sauron?). Feanor was the greatest Elf in craft and I believe Sauron would have seduced him by promising him to teach him crafts to make indomitable things and therefore Sauron would also be indomitable with the things that Feanor would have made with his help. I mean, can you imagine the power of the craft that Feanor would have made with the help of Sauron? Just a theory, but an extremely good one at that.
 

Turgon

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Sorry guys but no second marriage, no Silmarillion. That's the bottom line. The divisions in the house of Finwe are fundamental to the story, in fact without the divisions there is no story. Think of it this way. Feanor grows up a happy fellow, crafts the Silmarils... Melkor finding the Noldor a happy bunch of bunnies with no divisions to exploit, meets up with Ungoliant, kills the Two Trees - whilst all the happy Noldor are feasting (of course Finwe would not have been in exile at Formenost but would have been at the feast and so on, and so on) Melkor runs away. Feanor is asked for the Silmarils by the Valar and being the happy contented fellow that he is agrees (or his beloved father pursuades him)... the trees are healed and everyone lives happily ever after. Yay!
Okay, maybe it wouldn't have happened exactly like this (it's just another piece of pointless speculation), but it must be remembered that the Silmarillion is for the most part the story of the Fall of the Noldor (the Noldorlante) and without the second marriage there would have been no fall. No, nor no redemption either, no Fingolfin, no Turgon... no Turgon, no Idril... no Idril, no Earendil... no Earendil, no War of Wrath.
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Originally posted by Turgon
Sorry guys but no second marriage, no Silmarillion. That's the bottom line. The divisions in the house of Finwe are fundamental to the story, in fact without the divisions there is no story. Think of it this way. Feanor grows up a happy fellow, crafts the Silmarils... Melkor finding the Noldor a happy bunch of bunnies with no divisions to exploit, meets up with Ungoliant, kills the Two Trees - whilst all the happy Noldor are feasting (of course Finwe would not have been in exile at Formenost but would have been at the feast and so on, and so on) Melkor runs away. Feanor is asked for the Silmarils by the Valar and being the happy contented fellow that he is agrees (or his beloved father pursuades him)... the trees are healed and everyone lives happily ever after. Yay!
Okay, maybe it wouldn't have happened exactly like this (it's just another piece of pointless speculation), but it must be remembered that the Silmarillion is for the most part the story of the Fall of the Noldor (the Noldorlante) and without the second marriage there would have been no fall. No, nor no redemption either, no Fingolfin, no Turgon... no Turgon, no Idril... no Idril, no Earendil... no Earendil, no War of Wrath.







Thats right
 

Úlairi

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Originally posted by Turgon

Sorry guys but no second marriage, no Silmarillion. That's the bottom line. The divisions in the house of Finwe are fundamental to the story, in fact without the divisions there is no story. Think of it this way. Feanor grows up a happy fellow, crafts the Silmarils...
AND THEN MELKOR STEALS THEM! What you have stated Turgon is a false presumption. If Feanor had made the Silmarils regardless of the fact that there may have been no division, it would still have prompted Melkor to steal them out of sheer greed, and we would have a Silmarillion, just a very different one and today the Two Trees of Valinor would most probably still be our source of light.
 

Turgon

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What I stated was not a false presumption, Ulairi - it was, as I stated in my post a 'pointless speculation', let me give you another bit of PS, what opportunity did Melkor have to steal the Silmarils? He couldn't have done it after the poisoning the Two-Trees as Happy Feanor would have been wearing them at the feast, when the feast ends he gives them up to Valar, there are no Silmarils left to steal... again pointless speculation. But the whole idea of my post was to warn against pointless spectulation, not to give a new history of the Silmarillion.

P.S. I love pointless speculation!!!
 
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Úlairi

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OK, stick with pointless specualtion, with it, you can get yourself out of trouble quite easily. I believe that Melkor probably would still have found some way to steal the Silmarils, I just don't know how.
 

Grond

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Originally posted by Ulairi
That would have to be left up to the master himself, Mr. John Ronald Reuel Tolkien.
Foul. You can't participate in a speculation thread and then dump it back on the author. A speculation thread is meant to speculate what the author would have, could have, should have done. It is unfair to slip him back into the equation after taking him out by starting a speculation thread in the first place.
 

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