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Frodo with the Ring On (Beware! spoiler!)

Eonwe

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Seeing Frodo with the Ring on in the movie was a trip. I really didn't expect the whirling tornado vision that he got...

Just wondering: What do you think PJ will do to handle the points in TT and RoTK where Frodo or Sam has the Ring on and needs to see where he is going? Like when Sam has it on and can hear the Orcs talking and can see the light in the tower of Cirith Ungol? Or will these scenes be passed by...? I guess I thought Frodo sitting on Amon Hen would be in the movie, but...
 
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Harad

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Youre right PRH. What wasnt in the movie was Gandalf striving with Sauron to get Frodo to take off the Ring. (And Frodo putting on the Ring again after taking it off.) In the movie, Frodo shows more bravery than in the book by contending with Sauron his own self.
 

SupremeWizard

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Originally posted by Eonwe
Seeing Frodo with the Ring on in the movie was a trip. I really didn't expect the whirling tornado vision that he got...

Just wondering: What do you think PJ will do to handle the points in TT and RoTK where Frodo or Sam has the Ring on and needs to see where he is going? Like when Sam has it on and can hear the Orcs talking and can see the light in the tower of Cirith Ungol? Or will these scenes be passed by...? I guess I thought Frodo sitting on Amon Hen would be in the movie, but...
I think that the only problem isnt that Frodo or Sam wont be able to see where they are going, but didnt you notice that the Eye of Sauron and his servants (the ringwraiths) seemed to be immediately aware of the ring when Frodo put it on for a few seconds? In the TTT and RotK Sam clearly has the ring on for about 10 minutes or more. Wouldn't Sauron have perceived the location of the ring by then?
 
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Harad

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That's a problem with the book, tho, not the movie. There are all sorts of weasel ways out of it (e.g. Sauron was distracted by launching the Witch King Army), but the bottom line is that the book did not keep the properties of the Ring consistent thruout.
 

PRH

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the book did not keep the properties of the Ring consistent thruout
Harad, please elaborate on this. I know the properties of the Ring were not always the same, but I thought it was consistent (or at least the changes were adequately accounted for).

BTW - Frodo could absolutely see where he was going in the movie's treatment of the Ring-vision, people were just blurry (except the Wraiths). Don't forget, Frodo ran away from Boromir and climbed the seeing seat in the movie all while wearing the Ring.

Harad - what also wasn't in the movie was all the great visions Frodo had before the Barad-Dur caught his eye. I missed that although I can basically understand omitting it.
 

Eonwe

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See (bloated, but interesting) thread Attraction/Addiction to the Ring:

http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1671

I think I agree with Harad that the book is inconsistent with the Ring's effect

I gotta see the movie again, I forgot about Frodo on Amon Hen fighting Sauron himself :)

But still what about the barely able to see through tornado in the land of Oz vision when Frodo puts on the Ring? How will Sam be handled at Cirith Ungol I wonder?
 
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Harad

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Must remember...

Well there was wearing the Ring on Amon Hen and almost getting caught and wearing the ring 100 yards from Amon Hen, no sweat.

There was Gandalf holding the Ring in the "Shadow of the Past" and never touching it again (nor Galadriel nor Elrond).

There is Sam wearing the Ring in Minas Morgul, no sweat.

There's the whole attraction of the Ring to the Nazgul. In the Shire one Nazgul sniffs right next to the Ring, then gallops off in the wrong direction. Several Nazgul attack Crickhollow several days after the Ring is gone.

The Watcher in the Water and the Orc Chieftan going after the RingBearer in Mordor, yet other evil creatures (including the Nazgul) missing it.

Each one of these and others have been argued about, but the preponderance of nit-picking inconsistencies remain.
 

PRH

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Eonwe:
But still what about the barely able to see through tornado in the land of Oz vision when Frodo puts on the Ring?
I addressed this:
Frodo could absolutely see where he was going in the movie's treatment of the Ring-vision, people were just blurry (except the Wraiths). Don't forget, Frodo ran away from Boromir and climbed the seeing seat in the movie all while wearing the Ring.
There really is not a problem seeing with the Ring on.

Harad, I'm inclined to argue almost every one of your points but I'm sure I would have the same arguments as have been repeatedly presented before.
 

Tar-Palantir

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only time Sauron's aware that Frodo has the Ring on is on Amon Hen (besides when Frodo's at Mount Doom). Maybe it's Amon Hen itself that allows Sauron to be aware of it.
 

PRH

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I think your absolutely right. Amon-Hen, the seeing seat exposes Frodo directly to Barad-Dur.

PLUS, I would think this is the first time Frodo might actually trying to use the power of the Ring a little bit, rather than just wearing it. This is his very next wearing of it after his conversation with Galadriel about how it works (read the last page of "The Mirror of Galadriel").

It's one or both of these factors that allowed Sauron to be aware someone was wearing the Ring when Frodo was upon Amon-Hen.
 
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Harad

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That is certainly a "one-of-a-kind" explanation that has been tried before. It explains why Sam wearing the Ring at Minas Morgul or Frodo wearing the Ring 100 yards from Amon Hen is not detected.

It doesnt explain why Sauron doesnt know that Frodo is on Amon Hen if its "one-of-a-kind" nor how Sauron knew enuf to send Orcs to Parth Galen and attack the Fellowship but didnt know enuf to realize that Frodo was on Amon Hen.
 

PRH

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Parth Galen was orc-partol country. They got a little lucky.

Wearing the Ring at Amon-Hen would probably have the same feeling to Sauron as someone wearing it at Orthanc, Minas Tirith or possibly a few other high places. Or maybe it just amplified the vibes coming off Frodo, making it seem as though someone real powerful was wearing the Ring (who could've been anywhere). Or maybe Sauron DID know Frodo was at Amon-Hen and the escape Frodo made was only to escape the dominion of Sauron's will rather than just being physically found by him (gotta read that part over).

There are many explanations...
 
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Harad

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All lame.

The worst is the idea that there were several possible places like Amon Hen. At the same time Saruman had sent Ugluk and Sauron had sent Grishnakh to waylay the Fellowship at Parth Galen. If Sauron could add 2+2 he knows that Amon Hen is the only possibility. Also he knows from Grishnakh that halflings were taken at Parth Galen. What does he do about it? Sends a few Snaga along with Grishnakh to contend with Ugluk the Magnificent. Somewhat of a stretch.
 

Eonwe

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ok, so the answer to my question is: it isn't too bad to walk around with the Ring on:rolleyes:
 

Grond

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Originally posted by Harad
Youre right PRH. What wasnt in the movie was Gandalf striving with Sauron to get Frodo to take off the Ring. (And Frodo putting on the Ring again after taking it off.) In the movie, Frodo shows more bravery than in the book by contending with Sauron his own self.
I would have sworn I heard Gandalf's voice telling Frodo to take it off... but I could be mixing scene's up.
 

Grond

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And Harad, as has (lamely in your opinion) been argued in the past, the Ring wasn't "known" to Sauron except when it was being used. It was used only twice in the book, once on Amon Hen and once when Frodo claimed it in the Barad-dur. Sauron knew where it was immediately when Frodo put it on in Mordor, he was but 20 or so miles away. When it was put on at Amon Hen, it took Sauron a little while longer to get his locator beam fixed on Frodo's locations, thanks to Gandalf striving with Sauron and thanks to Gandalf's mental warning to Frodo to take it off.

Lame in your view...logical in mine. PRH... I'm with you man.
 
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Harad

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oops..How about Sam at Minas Morgul "using" the Ring.

Also Sauron "knew" where Frodo was since his good bud Grishnakh had been sent to Parth Galen. How lame that Sauron missed Frodo at Amon Hen?
 

Grond

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Alas Harad, once again we get into semantics. I meant using not wearing. Frodo was using the Ring's power on Amon Hen to look out upon the land and again at Mount Doom when he claimed it for his own. Sam never attempted to "use" the power of the Ring and hence, never came under Sauron's scrutiny.

Lame but that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.:)
 

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