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Frodo's Bravery

L

Lilnesser

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This is my first post, so I hope I'm doing so correctly. I very much enjoyed the movie (and I can be a pretty harsh film critic). Despite many an editing gliche that I did notice, I more noticed and enjoyed witnessing the reactions of many a Tolkien virgin (if you'll excuse the term) as being ones of enthusiasm to read Tolkien's works, and to learn more about Tolkien himself. I'll admit that there were several changes made to the story, within the movie, that disappointed me greatly because I felt they more hurt than helped (and I still can not understand the reasoning behind their being made).
However, the one change which, quite simply, bugged the hell out of me, was the ommission of Frodo's brave stand-off (by himself) against the Nazgul, despite his pain and terror, at the river outside of Rivendell (sorry, bad at remembering names), just before said river was "summoned" to Frodo's defense. This scene bore testimony to the little hobbit's bravery and strength- of-will. There were too many scenes in the movie which made Frodo, in particular, appear to be this weak, scared, and sad being - not as stout-of-heart, determined, and surprisingly wise as he is portrayed in the novel. Did anyone else find the lack of this scene as disturbing as I?
 

DGoeij

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Welcome to the Forum Lilnesser!

Good reasoning and I totally agree with you. I have said this in other threads as well. The expanded role of the character of Arwen is debateble, but on the other hand understandable. It's the diminishing of Frodo's part that ticked me off. join in other discussion about this, I should say. You'll also pick up names of places along the way;) Like the Fords of the Bruinen.
 
B

Baillie-Baggins

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I feel that Frodo's subtle heroism in The Movie is expressed all the more powerfully against a background where everybody else is using weapons right, left and center. His physical courage - which we all know he has - playing second fiddle to his moral courage emphasizes his strength of mind and character. He is both despairing and determined, terrified and grimly resolute; he has no hope for himself, but sees no other course.
 

Grond

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Baillie-Baggins & Lilnesser. Welcome to the forum!
Alas Baillie...

I must disagree with you though. It was hard to determine Frodo's frame of mind or thoughts while at the Ford of Bruinen... after all, he was passed out on the back of a horse while Arwen took on the Black Riders. He also didn't appear too strong when Arwen actually breathed life back into him.

And all the things you state in your post, is exactly how Frodo is supposed to appear. I was pleased with his portrayal except for the scene at the Fords, I was happy with the movie in general and enjoyed it; but, leaving that scene out was a mistake on the director's part, IMHO. Of course, my opinion counts for less and less around here as each day passes.
:)
 

DGoeij

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Opinion of the Grond counting for less? Now that's a load of ..... a peculiar reeking heap of brownish goo wich I shall give no precise name. But you get my point.

I too feel that in the movie the courage of Frodo (expertly described by Baillie-Baggins by the way) is not that good portrayed. In my view a waste of the strong points in the character of Frodo, nevertheless played rather good by Elijah Wood(sp?, last name).

Just the feeling I had at the end of the movie, wich I enjoyed.
 

Tuor

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Wood did a good job, but the messing up of the scene at the Ford really sucked.
 

QueenBeruthiel

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I agree with everybody else, the Ford scene in the movie destroyed what was supposed to be Frodo's moment.

By standing up to the Nazgul, Frodo displayed his considerable strength of character, which is to serve him well during his quest.

By taking his power away and delivering to Arwen, PJ reduced Frodo to a weak and humbled character, unsuited to the enormity of the quest he is about to volunteer for.
 
R

ReadWryt

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Frodo only looks as brave as he does in the movie because Woods played him as though he were about to burst into tears at any moment. Last time I saw a character with eyes that big and watery for as much of the picture as Frodo was E.T. .

I was left felling so sorry for the poor `lil guy that I ended up amazed that he was so brave as to go on when he so obviously was too belwildered and scared to do so without an act of will.
 

Grond

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Welcome QueenBeruthiel, you are a welcome addition to our humble forum. As you can tell from my previous posts, I am in full agreement with your assertions on Frodo. Overall, I was pleased with the movie but felt things were changed that should not have been. I'm not sure whether to blame PJ or the execs at New Line. One can only hope that with the success of the first film, PJ will given more latitude in editing the next ones and that he will keep scenes that are important in keeping with the spirit of the novel.:)
 

Kit Baggins

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Originally posted by ReadWryt
Frodo only looks as brave as he does in the movie because Woods played him as though he were about to burst into tears at any moment.
I thought that made Frodo seem a bit of a 'wet' character, but I still think he is brave, even in the film.

~Kit :p
 

Greenleaf

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[Frodo only looks as brave as he does in the movie because Woods played him as though he were about to burst into tears at any moment. Last time I saw a character with eyes that big and watery for as much of the picture as Frodo was E.T.]

I thought that Elijah Woods did an excellent job. I personally didn’t think that he "looked like he was going to burst into tears" He was facing what he thought to be his death. He was brave, but scared, he didn’t want to do take the ring but he did because it was the right thing to do, and I though that that was well portrayed in the movie. :)
 

Minas

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Copy of a post on another thread

Frodo's Fighting Spirit

Here's what I wrote on another thread but it got no reaction I've copied it all, but the top bit really only applies to this thread.

Can someone explain to me why Frodo doesn't seem to use Sting at all in the Movie. He looks at the sword when orcs are about and it turns blue ( he didn't seem to check if it had turned red when the Ringwraiths were close) but never seemed to use it in anger. Per the book in 'Flight to the Ford'
"At that moment Frodo Threw himself forward on the ground, and he heard himself crying aloud : O Elbereth! Gilthoniel![/I] At that time he struck at the feet of his enemy(The Ringwraith King)."
Later as well in 'The Bridge of Khazad-dum'
" 'The Shire' Frodo cried and springing beside Broromir, he stooped, and stabbed with Sting at the hideous foot. There was a bellow and the foot jerked back, nearly wrenching Sting from Frodo's arm. Black drops dripped from the blade and smoked on the floor."
Frodo's lack of action in these fight scenes in the movie and Arwen making the stand at the Fords ticked me off the most.
Don't get me wrong I think Glorfindel doesn't have enough involvement in TTT and RoTK to justify his inclusion and I agree with PJ to have changed him for Arwen. (I know this has been thrashed out already but just my opinion). I just think Frodo should have been given more fighting spirit in the movie and it ticked me off.

For my personal movie enjoyment I think PJ should change more details in TTT and RoTK from the book. I know ReadWryt has said many times that PJ said he would be following the books closely. Personally I haven't seen this comment attributed to him apart from this forum. I've heard him say recently that he had created his own version based on the book and would be deviating from the books much more in TTT and RoTK.

Myself I can't wait that long for the next two movies. I watched FoTR on opening night and searched to Net to learn more. I have plowed through this thread over 3 days and got drunk on all the great interaction. It is a powerful movie, a great tribute to the greatest book, you are a genius Peter Jackson for having brought it all together.
 

Dagorlad

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Minas:
OH - MY - GOD. I just can't word it any more thoroughly.
Wryt: The movie (like all movies drawn from a book of action) focused quite a lot on the parts with the most action, terror, or suspense. In those scenes, I would expect any person who has never left home or even seen a picture of a terrible thing, coming from a community with no murder and little crime, to be quite horrified. That means that if YOU, or I were raised under the aforementioned circumstances and then thrust out into a world with demon-like creatures who's very prescence filled one's mind with terror (and they were chasing you quite specifically), and then things actually got worse from there, I would bet any money that you too would look in each of those scenes like you might burst into tears at any moment. I'm not sure if you were saying that Frodo ought not to have looked that way, but in case you were, there's my piece on it.

The flood in the Bruinin. The whole thing was disgusting. Certain parts were necessary (but still disgusting) for simplicity's sake for those viewers ignorant to Tolkien, like Arwen bringing the flood with those ridiculous incantations, the rest was dispicable.
My face flushed with embarrassment at how utterly assinine and absurd the "come and claim him" gibberish was. Her bearing was most unseemly.
 
H

Harad

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Sorry, squeek, but I have to disagree with you. Not having Frodo face the Nazgul, really diminishes his character's bravery in FOTR alone. What happens in the other 2 movies is an independent issue, since many people havent read the book, and the other movies are 1 and 2 years away.
 

Grond

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Squeeky, you miss the point. The Fords showed Frodo's first acceptance that he and the Ring were now one. It was a moment in which both his bravery and resolve were clearly shown for the first time. It cannot be duplicated later in the movie. I won't argue with you that Frodo's bravery may be well depicted later in the movie. As a matter of fact, I'll even give you that it will; but, sadly, it should have been depicted at the Fords of Bruinen on the back of Glorfindel's horse Asfaloth. As it is we're left with an image of an unconcious Frodo being saved by an Elf-princess, who not only foils the Wraiths but then miraculously breaths life back into the dying Hobbit. Could you give me a chapter and page number on that scene??;)
 

daisy

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uhh paging Dr. Freud....

Okay Jeky.. I mean harad....

Oh Grond, it looks like you beat me to it - I have to agree with you, that I felt the film really diminished Frodo's bravery - actually he seemed quite scared unsure etcetera which came through much more for me on film than in the book, but the ford was a very important scene for developing Frodo's character and PJ could have found another way to get Liv in there.

On some other thread ( I can never find them again!!!) there is a discussion about whether Frodo failed in his mission because he was not exactly the one that threw the ring into the fire.... the idea of him being a failure

I wonder what awaits us in two and three - actually I have read articles with PJ where he seems to make it pretty clear that he followed the book all the way through, although he may have made more 'noticeable' changes in TTT. FOTR, in my opinion, was by far the easiest to make as a film and keep somewhat in spirit with the story - hey it's the age old quest with the band of brothers thing!!! Don Quixote anyone??:p
 

Grond

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Daisy, I agree with you but I have high hopes for ole PJ in the next two films. Other than the Arwen thing (which is major) and a few minor glitches, I really felt he kept fairly close. I've also discovered that much of the stay at Lorien was cut for time. Maybe (I'm hoping) that PJ will get much more influence in the cutting of the next two films due to the popularity of the first. That might give us more of the meat and less of the gore it you get my drift. New Line had to have the nonstop action because that's what they think sells a movie. I hope that they tone it down a tad in the next two since there will be plenty of action ready made with Helm's Deep, etc.

At least I'll hope that the next two don't do more damage than good. All in all, I keep telling myself that they will bring new readers to the works. (P. S. I know they have, one of my 19 year old twin sons had just finished reading the Hobbit and has even posted here on the board. The other one would start but is busy with studies and work. My oldest is known on this forum as Pops and has had his interest rekindled by the movie. So much good has come with the little bad.):D
 

Minas

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Hey Squeeky Wheel,

I'm not sure where you think Frod's bravery is going to be enhanced in TTT and ROTK. As far as drawing his sword to attack he all out of chances as they should only come in FOTR
 

lilhobo

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Originally posted by Grond
....The Fords showed Frodo's first acceptance that he and the Ring were now one. It was a moment in which both his bravery and resolve were clearly shown for the first time.
how can his resolve and bravery be considered, when he decides to succumb to the ring????

Hey Dr jeckyll and Mr Hyde, where is the logic here??? Frodo is meant to relate to the masses, while gollum is seen as the pathetic one.....

YET gollum is the one that saves the day
 

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