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Galadriel's Exaggeration

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Harad

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On the movie forum, Bunnywhippit posted the following quote:

Its rays glanced upon a ring about her finger; it glittered like polished gold overlaid with silver light, and a white stone in it twinkled as if the Even-star had come down to rest upon her hand. Frodo gazed at the ring with awe; for suddenly it seemed to him that he understood.

'Yes,' she said, divining his thought, 'it is not permitted to speak of it, and Elrond could not do so. But it cannot be hidden from the Ring-bearer, and one who has seen the Eye. Verily it is in the land of Lórien upon the finger of Galadriel that one of the Three remains. This is Nenya, the Ring of Adamant, and i am its keeper.'
I thought "cannnot be hidden" was an odd statement considering that Frodo had been in the company of both Elrond and Gandalf. Yet there was no indication that Frodo knew about their respective Rings.

PRH added:

Yes, very odd. Especially when you consider that at the time of this converstaion with Galadriel, Frodo had not worn the Ring since Amon Sul. Yet he had spent plenty of time with Elrond and especially Gandalf in the interim.
Was Galadriel blowing smoke?
 

Eonwe

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um minor point, but perhaps Galadriel was the only one who wore the Ring in his company? I don't know of anything saying Gandalf or Elrond did. But at the end of LoTR he sees both other Rings.

Anyway, I don't understand why he would see it and not Sam, even though Frodo did not have the Ring on.

beezar
 

Bill the Pony

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Originally posted by Harad
I thought "cannnot be hidden" was an odd statement considering that Frodo had been in the company of both Elrond and Gandalf. Yet there was no indication that Frodo knew about their respective Rings.

Galadriel states that the requirements for 'can not be hidden' are both being a ringbearer and having seen the Eye. As far as I remember, the mirror is the fist time that Frodo sees the Eye, so it's only now that the Three can no longer be hidden.
Sam doesn't fulfill either requirement, which is why somehow Galadriel can hide the ring from him. (How?? dunno, why do you need to have seen the Eye?? dunno)
 
H

Harad

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Anythings possible. If Elrond and Gandalf were not wearing their Rings, why? Seems like the time to wear their Rings is before Sauron gets back the One-- not much good afer.

The "requirements" are themselves odd. Frodo wears the Ring on Weathertop and gets the full Nazgul treatment. At the Mirror he doesnt wear the Ring, yet sees the Eye. Later on Amon Hen he both wears the Ring and sees the Eye. Every possible combination.
 

aragil

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Well, Frodo's exposure to Elrond came mainly from the dinner of 'Many Meetings' and the Council. Elrond need not wear it at all times- perhaps there's a time for 'ringly' business, and otherwise he and Galadriel keep their rings stored somewhere safe. Also, there were some very perceptive people at the Council and dinner whom Elrond may not have wanted to show off the ring to (not that he would have been suspicious of anybody, but the Elves seemed to want to keep the rings secret from everybody).
Gandalf's much tougher. Since he is always wandering he would have had to keep it somewhere on his person at all times. Perhaps he had an invisible pair of lead gloves that he wore? Long lead sleaves on his Wizardly Gown? Perhaps Frodo was just not paying attention to rings when he looked at the Wizard's hands? Might he have mistook the ring of fire for a betrothal band from Radagast? Perhaps Gandalf's ring had special powers of concealment, which is why Galadriel says that wherever Gandalf goes a cloud goes with him?
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Originally posted by aragil
Well, Frodo's exposure to Elrond came mainly from the dinner of 'Many Meetings' and the Council. Elrond need not wear it at all times- perhaps there's a time for 'ringly' business, and otherwise he and Galadriel keep their rings stored somewhere safe. Also, there were some very perceptive people at the Council and dinner whom Elrond may not have wanted to show off the ring to (not that he would have been suspicious of anybody, but the Elves seemed to want to keep the rings secret from everybody).
Gandalf's much tougher. Since he is always wandering he would have had to keep it somewhere on his person at all times. Perhaps he had an invisible pair of lead gloves that he wore? Long lead sleaves on his Wizardly Gown? Perhaps Frodo was just not paying attention to rings when he looked at the Wizard's hands? Might he have mistook Galadriel says that wherever Gandalf goes a cloud goes with him?
the ring of fire for a betrothal band from Radagast? Perhaps Gandalf's ring had special powers of concealment, which is why




Yeah i find it hard that sauron although he guessed never fo sure found out wrer the 3 were hidden. Surely the elveswould know ere they are and they would have to use them sometime. They must have kept it in their pocket or something. Because it would be visible all the time. I'm sure the elves in rivendell would know where they are because you can trust them.

"Everything that day was divided everything except the elves." From the last alliance
They would never tell sauron but if it was known around there it would have seeked out sooner then later. And all his spy's might have heard something. But it would have been gandalf in the most danger of someone finding out he went everywhere and he would have found it hard to conceal. I can see galadriel's ring know one knowing about that. Remember noone up until the fellowship got into lorien and got out again and the few trusted that did like Aragorn and probably elronds sons would never had said a word. But who know eh?????
 

Strider97

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In the Grey Havens it is mentioned that they now see Gandalf openly wearing his ring. This indicates that he had not worn it openly before. With Elrond it is possible that the two part test of seeing the eye and having worn the ring is possible. More probable is that Elrond did not wear it openly at home. Simple possession was good enough to affect Frodo and Bilbo's aging process. Perhaps Elrond, Gandalf and Galadriel were able to maintain the effects of the rings without earing them constantly.
 
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Harad

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These 3 Rings dont seem too impressive. Why is it that that great loafer Glorfindel can chase the Nazgul hither and yon for 2 Ages, yet Gandalf the Maia with a Ring seems a little queasy when the Witch King is mentioned, and we never hear of Elrond or Galadriel going after them.
 

Bucky

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Very good point Harad.

But remember Glorfindel (3rd Age version), was a High Elf & Gandalf states that 'against both the Seen & Unseen' he has great power.

Elrond is not an Elf that has seen the light on the 2 Trees.

Galadriel, never does any combat that I recall.
Although it is plainly stated she is the 'greatest' or most 'powerful' of the Eldar still in ME....

AND, remember, Elrond plainly tells Boromir at the COE that 'they (the 3) were not made as weapons of war or conquest'.
That alone would indicate they wouldn't give any advantage vs The Nazgul or #1 in particular, who as the Witch-king, was headed straight towards Eanur in the midst of a battle but turned & high-tailed it out of there when Glorfindel showed up.

>>>Anyway, I don't understand why he would see it and not Sam, even though
Frodo did not have the Ring on.

Sam is a rather 'simple' fellow you know.
Remember he was eavesdropping on Gandalf & Frodo for a long time but said he heard a bunch of stuff he really didn't understand, although that could've been a 'smoke-screen' to cover up his spying. However, the 'don't understand' angle fits in better with Sam's persona.
Sam is not the smartest guy around (and knows it), but he has alot more common sense (and courage) than many who perhaps have more 'knowledge'.


Now, some factless speculation:
Galadriel seems to show Frodo because he's ring bearer. It seems to me she just adds 'and one who has seen the Eye' as an aside. I doubt Frodo seeing the Eye now qualified him to see Three.....

Is it possible that Elrond & Gandalf wore the rings on, say their toe or the Rings could make themselves invisible at their owner's will?
Maybe one only had to posess one of the Three to acsess it's power as they were made by Celebrimbor alone & had different properties than the other Rings (for example, they did not give invisibility to their wearers).

Obviously, Gandalf needed to use the power of his Ring (remember Cirdan's words when giving it to him?).
He obviously couldn't just take it off every time somebody came around him could he? So, there must have been another way to conceal it.
 
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Harad

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But remember Glorfindel (3rd Age version), was a High Elf & Gandalf states that 'against both the Seen & Unseen' he has great power.
Aha...Fell into my trap..but I'll let it go...

Dont you think Gandalf was using his Ring in his Death Match with the unnamed Balrog (or was his name DB?)
 
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Harad

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Still as a defensive gem, it would come in handy preserving him in Death, if not in Life.

Why else did Cirdan tell him: Here you take it, You'll need it.
 

Bucky

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>>>

Why else did Cirdan tell him: Here you take it, You'll need it.

"To rekindle the hearts of a world that grows cold"

But, I do agree that while not being a offensive weapon, the Ring might help him defensively.
Nothing factual to base that statement on though.

It does say in fact that the Three 'preserved things' though, so maybe the Ring kept Gandalf's body from rotting, although in the cold up there....
Wait a minute, this is getting absurd.
Anything with the power to send Gandalf back from 'death' would have the power to give him a new body too.
 

Grond

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I think this has a pretty simple answer. First, my opinion is that the Three were always worn. They were not Rings of military Power... only Rings of a different Power. They created a type of "time warp." They kept things from aging and "changing" with time. The forests and gardens and dwelling of Imladris and Lorien were protected from the deterioration of time. That suited the Elves because, being immortal, they needed stability to keep them from tiring of Middle-earth.

Fordo was the Ring-bearer and had just looked into the Mirror of Gladriel. He had also seen the Eye of Sauron and the Ring was very active. (It had tried to drag him to the eye in the Mirror.) I would think that Frodo's senses would have been strongly attuned to "Ring Power" at that moment and I don't think any Ring anywhere could have been hidden from Frodo's enhanced vision at that moment.


It should be noted that at the Parting from Lorien the next morning, no mention is made of anyone seeing the Galadriel's Ring.
 

Strider97

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Grond,

I agree with everything except Gandalf always openly wearing the ring. The passage in the Grey Havens clearly notes that he was now wearing the ring openly? Otherwise why mention it.
 

Eonwe

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Fordo was of course, Frodo's original discarded name, that Tolkien last used in HoME circa 1941. It was the battle of the bulge, that made him change the name to Frodo. The rest is history (Fordo lives!)

I can't imagine how the owner of a ring of power can wear the Ring without it being seen. Yet this is what happens to Sam. Perhaps Galadriel is able to hide her figure well.

I mean what do they do, wear it on a chain, keep it in their pockets in case the sacksvalle-bagginses come by? Or hide it on an island in the middle of a subterranean lake?

But I don't think Sam is dumb enough not to see it (although arguable, since he thinks Caradhras is Orodruin).
 

Grond

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Openly as opposed to hidden. Maybe the Elven Ring Holders could control whether it was visible or not or perhaps they wore it around their necks on a chain much as Frodo did. I do not know but I am of the opinion that none would let it stray from their person.
 

Bucky

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I know it may sound dumb, but it is a possibility that the 'bearer' of one of the Three could control whether it was seen or not.

Remember, they were forged by Celebrimbor alone & weren't like the others.

That makes sense to me.


Or, maybe Elrond, Cirdan, Galadriel & Gandalf had pierced belly-buttons?
Nah....


BTW, remember when Gandalf's Ring is seen at the end, it's a powerless Ring.
 
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Harad

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The Buckman has a point...It makes sense for the 3 to wear theirs ALL the time while Sauron is separated from his Ring. It makes sense for them to have enuf power to hide themselves. The OneRing not only hid itself, but the whole person wearing it. Then when the 3 Rings lost their power, they were revealed.

The only other instance was when Frodo saw Galadriel. Unfortunately I have a bone to pick with this, since Frodo was not wearing the Ring.

This is the second time that an external magical force interacts with the Ring to cause unexpected effects. With the Mirror Frodo has "Ring"-like effects without even wearing the Ring. On Amon Hen, while wearing the Ring, similar things happen.
 

Grond

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As posted in the other thread, the author did intend for Amon Hen to be a special place and as is apparent in the Mirror of Galadriel chapter, her mirror was a very special place as well. In a world of magical Rings and Dragons and Balrogs, magical places are commoner that they are here. :)

And for the record, I was the one who said, "Maybe the Elven Ring Holders could control whether it was visible or not or perhaps they wore it around their necks on a chain much as Frodo did."
 

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