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God?

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klugiglugus

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It looks as if I am going to have to administrate your progress and try to make sure you walk on the right paths to get to the golden fountain of knowledge!

I know there's a God, but there's no way for me to prove it. God is something you feel inside you. I'm a Baptist Christian, by the way.
You are thinking of God in the conventional Christian sense, a religious sense, a mythical sense, a sense by which no true information can be taken from.

Because all logic points to it.
That’s the right way to think to get to where you need to go.

1. Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.
2. Never use a long word when a short one will do.
3. If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.
4. Never use the passive when you can use the active.
5. Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.
6. Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

~ From George Orwell's Politics and the English Languages 1947

Don't over talk yourself, klugiglugus And also remember the wisest man is he who realizes that he knows nothing at all.
Interesting point I am surprised it came from the mouth of a Marxist and secondly thought and evolution are one, we think for progress your intellectual frivolity isn't moving forwards, to put it in plainer terms as thought and debate is like building a house you need to stir the cement, lay the bricks down, follow the design, listen to all the builders to make sure your house is being built correctly.

Your neo-bolshevism is obsessed with stirring the cement, only intellectual jargon is produced meaning that allot of your ideas and plans have no real basis in reality for example communism! The political protocol that was supposed to make every body equal and yet Stalin killed Jews, caused suffering and subjected his people to random persecutions!
 

Eriol

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Originally posted by klugiglugus
You are thinking of God in the conventional Christian sense, a religious sense, a mythical sense, a sense by which no true information can be taken from.
What is your definition of "true information"? Are there any criterions to identify it?
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by Eliot
I know there's a God, but there's no way for me to prove it. God is something you feel inside you. I'm a Baptist Christian, by the way.
Hi Eliot,

What you are talking about is Faith in its purest and strongest form. I do envy you, and all true believers!

What you feel as God inside you is what I would call a conclusion based on life experiences, hopes, needs and temperament, and possibly even indoctrination.

I believe that a strong belief, more, an unassailable conviction does not in itself prove truth, nor does strong emotion in itself prove truth. But that's my belief, or my conclusion formed from my life experiences. So you see my conundrum!;)

—Lotho
 

Lantarion

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Hahaha Ciryaher, excellent Orwell-quote; very '1984'! ;)

Elessar how do you think logic points to the existence of God?? Isn't it the very opposite, which is why 'faith' is required?
 
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Ciryaher

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Originally posted by klugiglugus
Interesting point I am surprised it came from the mouth of a Marxist and secondly thought and evolution are one, we think for progress your intellectual frivolity isn't moving forwards, to put it in plainer terms as thought and debate is like building a house you need to stir the cement, lay the bricks down, follow the design, listen to all the builders to make sure your house is being built correctly.

Your neo-bolshevism is obsessed with stirring the cement, only intellectual jargon is produced meaning that allot of your ideas and plans have no real basis in reality for example communism! The political protocol that was supposed to make every body equal and yet Stalin killed Jews, caused suffering and subjected his people to random persecutions!
You make a lot of assumptions based on my avatar, and assumptions killed the cat. My ideas are based on logical thought and reasoning; not on jargonous terms (I don't go around spouting "proletariat" and "burgeousie").

Rather than pointing your finger at me for being a Marxist, maybe you should just take what I said seriously and stop using the ridiculously complicated words to attempt to get your point across...and at the moment, you're coming off as being half-crazy. Now, try and make your argument without the over-speak.
 

Lantarion

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Perfect example of why threads like this have not been popular in the past to Moderators or WM.. Klugiglugus, drop the 'finger pointing' and offensive attitude (also dropping the excessive terminological dialect ;) would be great); and Cir please don't continue klug's sidetracking attempts. ;)
 

Eriol

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As for me, I hope klugiglugus will do his best to answer my question...

The best way to deal with excessive terminology is to hammer away at definitions ;).
 

ms Greenleaf

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I beleive that there is a higher being because if we are the extent of Mind power and being than that is just depressing.

I beleive in Socialism

I also hate when people mark down communism as horrible without having any un-bias knowledge ofit. In Western places we are taught that capitalism is good and COmmunism is Bad. That is not how subjects should be delt with

I think that we all go to some "better place" not because we do or do not beleive but because we are good and humane...
 

klugiglugus

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I think the basis for your thinking that I am insane is basically because I am insane; sanity is a water I have paddled through feeling ever so slightly bored...

I do have much of the higher answers to the higher questions such as god and life on other planets because of my insanity and my will.

I think that part of the reason for why you are so stuck on a node of disbelief is because you cannot understand my answer to the meaning of life, either that or you simply do not wish to understand.

Plato made a story that I think is akin to this situation 3 men are chained inside a cave from the age of 3 months to the age of 20, the only world they know is the one of the shadows displayed by an array of light from the out side world and the creatures from the out side world however one day on of the 3 men brakes free and sees the light of reality and basks in the warm glow of the barren sun when he goes back to tell the others of what he has seen they claw his eyes out and beat him into the ground.


I cannot guarantee you that my ideas are totally valid but I can guarantee you that they will enlighten you if you just open your mind! Even if they are not true they will lead to more questions being asked and the more questions you ask the closer you get to the truth! Will you open your mind???
 

Lantarion

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Well Klug could you repeat that great revelation for us then please?

Originally posted by ms Greenleaf
I beleive that there is a higher being because if we are the extent of Mind power and being than that is just depressing.
In which case you believe in God because you know that if you did not, life would be depressing. Would you not say that God in such a case would be akin to an 'easy answer'?
In fact, in my opinion a far more plausible answer to that clause ("If we are the extent of mind power and being...") is that we are not because it is more than likely that there are sentient beings that exist in the universe who are far superior to us in many ways. But you wouldn't call them your Gods would you?
Originally posted by ms Greenleaf
I also hate when people mark down communism as horrible without having any un-bias knowledge ofit. In Western places we are taught that capitalism is good and Communism is Bad. That is not how subjects should be dealt with.
I agree 100%; but let's not go there in this thread.
 

klugiglugus

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You havn't asked the questions I had put forward for you to ask you have just danced around the subect and that is what human nature is so I shall make this very simple for you to understand ask me the ultimate question and I shall give you the answer!
 

ms Greenleaf

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I phrased that badly did I not. I do not beleive in going to church as a nessissary part of beleiving in god. Actually I think god can be found more redily in the world around oneself. TO me naming something a "god" means nothing. Words are nothing. I do not think that any of the religions can be taken as the"Ultimate" truth because they were all created in part by men.

Thats it

ps I have no problem with insanity
I also think communism is close to what jesus wanted,,, if you take communism in its purest form which really has not yet occured
 

Elessar II

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Elessar how do you think logic points to the existence of God?? Isn't it the very opposite, which is why 'faith' is required?
That is also true. But any thinking human mind can see that all of the ideas and philosiphy of man that have ultimately attempted to destroy the fact that there is a God are completely preposterous.
I cannot believe that some condensed element suddenly ignited and exploded, forming the earth, stars, planets and galaxies billions of miles apart and gigantic in size.
And that over billions and billions and billions of years the evolutionary process converted a tiny organism into the human race. It is utterly ridiculious!
For example, without ALL of its assets, the human eye would absolutely NOT function. So evolutionists expect me to believe that for millions of years prehistoric man stumbles his way across the globe, and then suddenly BOOM, wow! the final part of the eye has completed the evolutionary process, Prehistoric man can now see!
Also how many fish have we seen with legs? None? But wait, didn't we at some point come from the ocean?
And how many animal have we seen in that are in the MIDDLE of the evolutionary process?
And although scientists have repeatedly claimed that missing links have been found, there is yet to discover a real missing link.
The whole idea is just totally bizarre. Even Charles Darwin himself said and I quote " If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down."
That was way back in the 1800's before the organ systems ( reproductive, digestive, endocrine, excretory, etc.... were discovered! Since then we have discovered at least 7 complex organs that could not possibly have evolved.

This all just goes to show that there IS a Higher Power, a Master Designer, who must laugh at all the futile attempt of man to wipe Him from history. And any really thinking human mind must realize how ILLOGICAL it is that evolution did occur.
The only possible way we could be here is through the design of God.
 

arisen pheonix

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if you want proof of god just listen to the wording of the big bang theory....

to be taken literally


all the nothing in existance got togeter in a tiny spher smaller than this dot . and exploded


really people:rolleyes:
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by Elessar II
That is also true. But any thinking human mind can see that all of the ideas and philosiphy of man that have ultimately attempted to destroy the fact that there is a God are completely preposterous.
To believe in something, even to the point of unshakeable conviction, does not make it true. To believe that an idea is absolutely prepostrous does not make it false.

What "makes sense" does not mean it's true. What appears to be utter nonsense does mean it's false.

—Lotho
 

Eriol

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A few posts back...

It's rare to have an opportunity to quote yourself :D.

Originally posted by Eriol

Originally posted by klugiglugus
You are thinking of God in the conventional Christian sense, a religious sense, a mythical sense, a sense by which no true information can be taken from.
What is your definition of "true information"? Are there any criterions to identify it?
I don't want the ultimate answer to the ultimate question, not right now ;). I want the answer to that question I made earlier, in order to attempt to understand what you are saying, klugiglugus.

Wow, this thread is spinning and spinning in off-topic terrain... Communism and Evolution now?

The thread "Communism" in the Archives was quite enlightening.

And these threads:

Question on the Bible

Thoughts on Darwinian Evolution

were about Evolution. My thoughts on these two topics, summarized, are these:

Communism is not only morally wrong, it is also self-contradictory and impossible in practice;

Evolution is as proven as any other scientific theory, and it does not threaten -- at all -- Christianity.

I'd be glad to discuss these thoughts in depth in some other thread if anyone wants to know the grounds for these assertions of mine... both subjects are a bit of "pet hobbies" for me, especially Evolution which is a bit more than a hobby.

But what I REALLY want to know is the meaning of "true information" as used by klugiglugus ;).
 

Elessar II

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To believe in something, even to the point of unshakeable conviction, does not make it true. To believe that an idea is absolutely prepostrous does not make it false.
Would you expound on that statement a little Lotho?

Evolution is as proven as any other scientific theory, and it does not threaten -- at all -- Christianity.
Are you kidding me? It just threatens the fact that there is a God and it implies that the Word of God (the Bible) is nothing but a book of lies.
Also, explain to me how evolution is as proven as any other scientific theory.:confused:
 

Eriol

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Originally posted by Elessar II
Are you kidding me? It just threatens the fact that there is a God and it implies that the Word of God (the Bible) is nothing but a book of lies.
Also, explain to me how evolution is as proven as any other scientific theory.:confused:
No, I'm not kidding :). Read those threads. Question on the Bible looks at it from the Biblical viewpoint; Thoughts on Darwinian Evolution looks at it from the scientific viewpoint.

If you still have questions after reading those threads (and of course you will :D), open a new thread (since those threads are archived now) or PM me. I answered those concerns of yours in the threads. Of course, whether my answer was good enough to assuage your concerns remains to be decided by you ;). But it is good enough for me. I'm a Christian, and an Evolutionist, and I see no contradiction in that.
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Lotho said: "To believe in something, even to the point of unshakeable conviction, does not make it true. To believe that an idea is absolutely prepostrous does not make it false."

Ellessar II: Would you expound on that statement a little Lotho?

Lotho: What's to expound?:) If I have the unshakeable conviction that the world is flat, that doesn't make it true.

If I believe that the idea of going to the moon is utterly preposterous, that doesn't make it false (Obviously all of mankind held both propositions totally once upon a time).

Just because propositions or assertions are invested with strong emotion, that makes a proposition neither true nor false, although the presence of strong emotion tends to convince one that something is true, which is a trap many people fall into. A thing is either true or false independent of what we think, independent of our convictions, and independent of our emotions.

—Lotho
 
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