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God?

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Elessar II

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Just because propositions or assertions are invested with strong emotion, that makes a proposition neither true nor false, although the presence of strong emotion tends to convince one that something is true, which is a trap many people fall into. A thing is either true or false independent of what we think, independent of our convictions, and independent of our emotions.
But the fact that there is a God is not just a proposition, it's a known fact, a proven fact, and emotions have nothing to do with it.

If you still have questions after reading those threads (and of course you will ), open a new thread
I'll do that. :D
 

Lantarion

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Originally posted by Elessar II
But the fact that there is a God is not just a proposition, it's a known fact, a proven fact, and emotions have nothing to do with it
Stop posting opinions as truths, or you will be given Warning Points and this thread will be closed. I'm serious. This thread is for discussion, not for laying 'truths' out and saying which is the actual one.
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by Lantarion
Stop posting opinions as truths, or you will be given Warning Points and this thread will be closed. I'm serious. This thread is for discussion, not for laying 'truths' out and saying which is the actual one.
Hi Lantarion,

I appreciate you doing your moderation duties, but please don't give warning points to Ellessar II. I wasn't aware he was getting close to breaking a rule. I'll be happy to keep up my dialogue with him via PM, and take this whole thing off the boards, if you wish.

—Lotho
 

Elessar II

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Stop posting opinions as truths, or you will be given Warning Points and this thread will be closed. I'm serious. This thread is for discussion, not for laying 'truths' out and saying which is the actual one.
I'm sorry. I was getting excited.
 

Helcaraxë

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Hmm...I think that there is no simple answer to your question. It is a topic that has been hotly debated for thousands of years. Personally, I am a panentheist. I believe that everything is a part of god, the Absolute being.

MB
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by MorgothsBane
Hmm...I think that there is no simple answer to your question. It is a topic that has been hotly debated for thousands of years. Personally, I am a panentheist. I believe that everything is a part of god, the Absolute being.

MB
Ah, what is the basis for your being a pantheist? That's not a position one comes to lightly, especially not in a Western country such as the USA. How did you come to hold that belief?

(I myself have been a member of a Hindu spiritual path for many years, and am also mildly attracted to some of the tenets of Tibetan Buddhism, especially those which espouse kindness and compassion toward self and others.)

—Lotho
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by Elessar II
Is it true that Hindu's worship over three hundred million gods, many of which are animals?:confused:
That's true. It is also true that in the Hindu take on reality, what's important is that a person believe in any version of God that makes sense to him no matter how simple or complex, as long as it influences him to act with kindness, compassion and love toward himself and others.

Yep, there are gods and goddesses for just about everything you can think of (like separate facets of a huge God-diamond), but they're only aspects of God.

In Hinduism (at least in Kashmir Shaivism) the only thing that exists (and does not exist) is God. God is all space, time, matter and nothingness. God is everything we can understand and is beyond our understanding.

A child goes to the beach, sits down in the sand. He makes castles, cars, people, horses, etc. Yet they're all sand. The sand is God. Everything is made of God.

All matter and energy are transmutations of God, Spirit. Think of H2O. Freeze it and you have ice. Melt it and you have water. Boil it and you have steam, yet it's all H2O in different states of being. God is like that. Matter and energy are congealed spirit.

Each wave is part of the ocean, there's no difference exept that we see a "wave" and give it a name, an artificial construct. We're all waves in the God-ocean.

But in Hinduism, you don't have to believe any of it, and that's OK too, because everything is God including you. including the people who don't believe any of it. God is playing myriad roles. Why? For divine sport, or leela in Sanskrit. God is taking the parts of you having a dialogue with me. God is taking the part of the Christian, the Jew, the Buddhist, the atheist, the agnostic, the Indian tribesmen who have religions and spiritual paths we never even heard of. God is George Bush, Joe Lieberman, Saddam Hussein, Bette Midler, Stalin, Hitler, Einstein, Hawkings and Ghandi, Leno and Letterman.

There's nothing and no one that isn't God. Hinduism says that God is all there is, and everything and everyone that is, including everyone who thinks this whole post is absolutely crazy and Lotho is a madman or hopelessly lost for his beliefs and is damned to everlasting hell for his heretical ideas.:p

One more thing: I do not believe that all this is literally true, as I do not believe that the mythology of any religion is literally true. How could any one religion be the one and only truth? What does that make all the other religions? That's like saying that pepperoni pizza is the One True Pizza — ridiculous! Religions have much wisdom. We figured out long ago what to do to make earth into heaven. But there are also a lot of fear and guilt-generating ideas embedded in religions that I think are sheer crap.

So at 67 years into the game, that's why my Deep Thought is: "It all boils down to how you treat yourself and others."

—Lotho
 

Lantarion

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Fabulous post Lotho, I dno't think I've ever heard a better summary of the Hindu religion. :)
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by Lantarion
Fabulous post Lotho, I don't think I've ever read a better summary of the Hindu religion. :)
Aw, shucks, :::bows, stands with one foot over the other, blushes furiously::: thanks!

—Lotho
 

Helcaraxë

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Lotho, the Hindu coneption of God and mine are very, very similar.
As for how I came to be a panentheist, I'm not sure I understand the question. I'm a panentheist (<--note spelling; panentheism and pantheism are different;)) because that is the way that I believe the universe to be. That is my view on the way things are.
I don't know if that was your question.

MB
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by MorgothsBane
Lotho, the Hindu coneption of God and mine are very, very similar.
As for how I came to be a panentheist, I'm not sure I understand the question. I'm a panentheist (<--note spelling; panentheism and pantheism are different;)) because that is the way that I believe the universe to be. That is my view on the way things are.
I don't know if that was your question.

MB
Omigod! I thought you'd misspelled "pantheist!" :::blushes furiously::: Now — what is panentheism?

—Lotho
 

Helcaraxë

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Originally posted by Lotho_Pimple
Omigod! I thought you'd misspelled "pantheist!" :::blushes furiously::: Now — what is panentheism?

—Lotho
From "A world of Ideas: A dictionary of important theories, concepts, beliefs, and thinkers":

Pantheism and panentheism: Related but distinct ways of understanding the relation of God to the world. Pantheism (literally, "God in all") holds that God and nature are identical, while panentheism ("all in God) holds that God contains the world but is greater than it.
Hope that helps.

--MB
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Thanks for the definition. A subtle, but important difference between the two: so panentheism is a synergistic kind of cosmology in which all the elements of reality go to make up God, who is more than the sum of the parts — is that right?

—Lotho
 

Barliman Butterbur

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Originally posted by MorgothsBane
Yes, that's the basic idea.:) So I take it that as a Hindu you are a panentheist as well? (Your description of Brahman is very panentheistic.:) )

MB
Hi MB,

I wouldn't call myself a Hindu by any means! I was very deeply involved in a Hindu path for many years when I was searching for the answers to so-called "Perennial Questions." I have moved to the very periphery of that path since then. My Deep Thought says it all for me now.

I'd never heard of panentheism until just a few days ago, and I mistook the term for a misspelling of "pantheism."

I suppose Hinduism could be considered either one, depending on one's own outlook. It's so inclusive that one could consider literally anything as some facet or other of Hinduism, since one of the basic tenets is, "There is nothing that isn't Shiva (God)." What term you put on that is up for grabs, I guess.:)

—Lotho
 
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So you're not actually a hindu?

Can i ask, if a child has been Baptised but later in life, they decide that they dont want to be a christian anymore, is it possible for them to change Religion and God? :confused:
 

Starflower

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of course it is possible to change religion and God, it is after all a personal choice. But I think the official stand of the christian churches is that you cannot be 'unbaptised', once you have been baptised it will stay with you, even if you choose to practice another religion. So in the event that later in life you decide to follow Christianity again, you will not have to re-baptised.
Though there are some Christian movements where you can be re-baptised if you have left the movement and come back later. ( I know I used to be part of one)
 

Sarde

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celebdraug said:
So you're not actually a hindu?

Can i ask, if a child has been Baptised but later in life, they decide that they dont want to be a christian anymore, is it possible for them to change Religion and God? :confused:
You can change religion, but it would be pretty hard to 'change God', assuming that there can be only one God. Contrary to what is generally assumed, even Hinduism is a monotheistic religion. It just assumes that God can take on an unlimited number of forms. Which isn't so hard to imagine, assuming that God is all-powerful.
 
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