Grima's Tear

Discussion in '"The Two Towers"' started by 33Peregrin, Feb 22, 2003.

  1. 33Peregrin

    33Peregrin hmmm

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    Hello. I was just wondering if anyone else noticed this and was confused, like me. After Gandalf reveals Grima to Theoden, Grima goes back to Orthanc. When Saruman shows Grima his great army of 10,000 Uruk- hai, Grima has a tear running down his cheek.
    This really confused me, and I don't see why they did this. I think, like in the book, Grima must have been remorseful about betraying Theoden, when he realized that Saruman was not as great as he thought he was. In the movie, it should seem as if the Orcs will be victorious at Helms Deep, and that Saruman is still great. If a tear ever ran down his face, I don't think it would be at this part. I don't think Grima really loved his master enough to weep at him being destroyed, especially at this part. I just don't understand. I think that Grima eventually regreted what he did, but not exactly what he did to Theoden. In the movie, it seemed like Grima did not really want to have the King of Rohan destroyed, after he saw what would be done to him, and I don't really see why this was done in the movie. I think that even after Isengard was destroyed, Grima did not really care what happened to Theoden, and never did, unless it be when he was following Saruman around in the Shire.

    I hope someone sees what I am saying and can agree, or explain what really did happen to me. Thanks.
     
  2. Ariana Undomiel

    Ariana Undomiel Hrívëvendë

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    I too was confused by Grima shedding tears. My only conclusion was that in reality, Grima served Saruman out of fear and he hated a lot of people but I think that the idea of this huge brutal army of orcs going and slaughtering all the men, women, and children at Helm's Deep, including Eowyn whom he desired, might have been very overwhelming. He didn't think that Saruman had enough of a force to do such a thing.

    - Ariana
     
  3. TheFool

    TheFool Registered User

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    er, I'll put a cynical view forward: maybe it just happened on the set, you know, the wind machine was blowing in his face, or it was really cold or something... and Peter Jackson just thought 'hey, this looks emotional..can I use this? Yes we're gonna go with it!' - without having any real 'reason' :confused: . For example (off the top of me head but quite appropriate :) ) Rutger Hauer's 'tears' speech at the end of Blade Runner was (supposedly) partly made up on the spot, but it's amazing so it was put into the film.

    Just a thought. :)

    TF.
     
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  4. LordOfMoria

    LordOfMoria Balin Son of Fundin

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    I agree!
     
  5. lotrobsession4

    lotrobsession4 *Happy Hobbit*

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    I dunno and I don't think we'll ever get the real answer- when I first saw it my friend and I both thought he was maybe crying because he couldn't believe what he was seeing and that he was like happy. I'm still confused- it could be because he's sad but my first reaction was he was like crying out of disbelief, etc. hmm... good thinking question... :confused:
     
  6. LadyofIthilien

    LadyofIthilien Registered User

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    I think that scene was there to show that Grima is a coward. He is so sure that there is no way 'good' will win, that he joins with the side who he thinks will be victorious. He dosen't like the thought of death, and to see that huge army that he thinks is imposible to defeat, he gets a terrible bang of guilt, and realizes he should not be here aiding Saruman, who is about to kill so many of the people he knows. And he also begins to realize that he has put himself in a terrible position. There is no way he can get out of this mess, he is extremly scared of Saruman (his master). And his life is doomed to be slow and torturous for the rest of his life.....:(
     
  7. Lúthien Séregon

    Lúthien Séregon Registered User

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    When I saw the film, I thought the tear was a sign that Grima was overwhelmed by the sight and the "beauty" of the power of Saruman's army, as it might appear to him.
     
  8. LadyofIthilien

    LadyofIthilien Registered User

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    i still think he was shakin' in his boots.....:)
     
  9. lotrobsession4

    lotrobsession4 *Happy Hobbit*

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    yah Luthien thats what I was trying to say lol yes thats what I thought! thank u :)
     
  10. Niniel

    Niniel Random Quoter

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    I loved that. I think it was supposed to show that Gríma was shocked by Saruman's army. Gríma joined Saruman because he thought Saruman would win and he might get a powerful position under Saruman's rule. But Gríma never tought that Saruman's real purpose was to destroy the world of Men; he just thought Saruman would want to be the ruler of Men. But when Gríma found out what Saruman relly wanted, he realizid that everything and everyone he had once loved would be destroyed, and that he himself might not be better off when Saruman would win. Even if he would get powerful, he would always feel guilty about what he had done.
    So he cried because he realized what he had done, and what that would mean: the destruction of the world, of which really no good could come.
     
  11. Aulë

    Aulë The Larrikin

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    Yes, I felt that they were either tears of joy, or tears of sadness for betraying Rohan.
    The second theory might be true, for there are rumours that in ROTK, Wormtongue slays Saruman. And the tears would be sybolising that Wormtongue had just realized that he did not wish for Saruman to destroy Rohan. Therefore he would kill Saruman to make up for the error of his ways.
     
  12. balrog

    balrog CEO of Fear

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    That is an excellent theory!
     
  13. Phee

    Phee Believer

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    I'm still undecided as to my interpretation of Grima's tear. Perhaps they meant it to be ambiguous so everyone can interpret it in their own way. Wonder if Brad Dourif will have anything to say about it during the cast commentary for the DVD?
     
  14. kohaku

    kohaku Neekerbreeker

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    The first time I saw it I thought it was a tear of joy, but it seemed unfitting. Maybe it's happy, maybe it's sad, maybe it's supposed to be ambiguous... but for the time being I find that scene to be rather awkward.
     
  15. LadyofIthilien

    LadyofIthilien Registered User

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    another thing

    I just rememberd something.....he doesn't seem very upset when he is talking to Saruman about the bomb thingy. The one that blows a hole in Helms Deep, i mean.
    What about that little hankie thing hes always holding in the pictures? What's that all about?
    :confused:
     
  16. Eriol

    Eriol Estel

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    of the posted opinions the one closest to mine is Niniel's. PJ introduced the genocide angle, that Saruman was trying to "destroy the world of Men", that was not in the books. So in the movie it makes sense that Gríma would belatedly feel an allegiance to his own species. In the book Saruman was trying to rule and order, not destroy, and Gríma was sure he'd have "a pick of the treasure and the woman of his choice"... it would make no sense for him to repent by watching the glory of Saruman's army then.
     
  17. Aulë

    Aulë The Larrikin

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    Re: another thing

    He did not know of the bomb. Although Saruman was preparing it right in front of him.
    Remember how Wormtongue held the candle over the gunpowder?
     
  18. Mithlond

    Mithlond Sensory Overload

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    Yet he still knew this device would cause mass devastaton.

    "What type of device could bring down the [Helm's Deep] wall?"
     
  19. Aulë

    Aulë The Larrikin

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    Saruman did not tell him though.
    I don't think that Wormtongue believed that it was possible for the wall to be destroyed.
     
  20. Foe-Hammer

    Foe-Hammer Registered User

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    I've only seen it 4 times now (Tarnashun! I still be a waiting to really enjoy it and by gum, I'm gonna keep throwing money at this ding-dang-diddly movie until they get it right!) but is it possible that grima expects that HE will be ruler over Rohan and it's people and seeing Sarumans army, realizes there will be nothing left to rule?