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Grima's Tear

33Peregrin

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So basically we have Grima either gloriously happy over Saruman's vast army, or over the destruction of men that were his kind. Even after all these posts, I'm still confused. I don't think Grima was weeping over the distruction of men. I think he was rather expecting something great from his new master. If Grima ever had doubts about destroying the world of men, I don't think that it would be at this point. Not right before he fully betray's his master, and is at the peak in sharing with his master's power. And something just doesn't let me go for it being a tear of happiness or awe. Grima just doesn't seem like the type to get emotional and start crying when he is pleased. Also, after all Eowyn does to reject him, I think he was feeling pretty good for, perhaps, "paying her back". Or something.... I'm still confused, and I guess I always will be in this point of the movies. Oh well.
 

Theodwyn

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Heh Heh. yeah. When I watched it, I thought it was out of astonishment of the Uruk- hai army. I read some of this a while ago, and payed extra attention to that part next time I saw TTT. That's all I got from it.
 

BlackCaptain

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Originally posted by Lúthien Séregon
When I saw the film, I thought the tear was a sign that Grima was overwhelmed by the sight and the "beauty" of the power of Saruman's army, as it might appear to him.
Thats what I thought, though I didnt like it.
 

Wulf of Dunland

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This is a bit late reaction, but I just read this topic (and it's a good topic imo) for the first time.

I think the tear is indeed because Gríma gets the point that Saruman will destroy Man. But then again, Gríma is evil so he wouldn't care about that...

edit: I forgot to say that I was really touched by this scene...
 

33Peregrin

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Now that the TTT DVD is out, has anyone officially decided what the tear might mean? I watched TTT last night, and this is what I think for myself about Grima's tear.

I noticed that after Saruman told Grima about the new explosive powder that would breech the deeping all, Grima looked somewhat surprised. When he tells Saruman that they would still need a huge army, and Saruman shows him the 10,000 Uruk-hai army, Grima lets out his tear. I believe that Grima really was more of a Rohrrim man (even evil). He mostly believed like the rest of the Rohrrim that Helm's Deep could never fall, even though he did want it to. Seeing that it actually was to be done was too much of a shock for him.
 

Gandalf White

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Originally posted by 33Peregrin
Now that the TTT DVD is out, has anyone officially decided what the tear might mean? I watched TTT last night, and this is what I think for myself about Grima's tear.

I noticed that after Saruman told Grima about the new explosive powder that would breech the deeping all, Grima looked somewhat surprised. When he tells Saruman that they would still need a huge army, and Saruman shows him the 10,000 Uruk-hai army, Grima lets out his tear. I believe that Grima really was more of a Rohrrim man (even evil). He mostly believed like the rest of the Rohrrim that Helm's Deep could never fall, even though he did want it to. Seeing that it actually was to be done was too much of a shock for him.
However, this argument is directly countered by the fact that he himself told Saruman that Rohan was fleeing to Helm's Deep, specifically mentioning women and children. Because of him they were attacked on the road, while seemingly defenseless. He hated Rohan for casting him out, I don't think he would in anyway wish them safe.

This leads me to believe that Grima's tear was one caused by a deep emotion of awe, and anticipation. After all, he was personal aid and chief follower of Saruman, surely something good would come of this.
 

Narsil

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Originally posted by LadyDernhelm

If you'll remember, the tear escapes right after Saruman makes a comment about "leaving none alive". I immediately thought that Gríma, worm that he is, was crying for the fact that Éowyn, the woman he desired, would be killed. That tear is REPULSIVE to me...*shudders*
Yep..that was my feeling as well.

Interesting that Grima also tells Saruman where the weak point of Helm's Deep is...I guess he's supposed to appear conflicted.
 

joxy

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The answer is the same as ever: PJ has a fetish for tears, and, sooner or later, all his actors have to have one painted on for them - maybe "Lurtz" is an exception:)
 

33Peregrin

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Originally posted by Gandalf White
However, this argument is directly countered by the fact that he himself told Saruman that Rohan was fleeing to Helm's Deep, specifically mentioning women and children. Because of him they were attacked on the road, while seemingly defenseless. He hated Rohan for casting him out, I don't think he would in anyway wish them safe.

This leads me to believe that Grima's tear was one caused by a deep emotion of awe, and anticipation. After all, he was personal aid and chief follower of Saruman, surely something good would come of this.
I was saying mostly that I know Grima wanted the people of Rohan destroyed, to have Eowyn, and to have a share of Saruman's power. I think he was just getting nervous because like the Rohirrim- he never believed that it could happen. Have any of you ever planned something, no matter what, that you believed would never happen, then one day you realize it will? That makes me nervous. That's what I believe Grima's tear was from watching The Two Towers in my own home.
 

Tinuvien21

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First, I thought that he was so happy that his "dream" if you want to call it is coming true...his leader Saruman will really take over Rohan..
But then I thought that he was crying becaus he was sad ....because he didn't know that it would go that far.

I dunno...that's just my opinion..good or not.
 

Narya

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er, I'll put a cynical view forward: maybe it just happened on the set, you know, the wind machine was blowing in his face, or it was really cold or something... and Peter Jackson just thought 'hey, this looks emotional..can I use this? Yes we're gonna go with it!' - without having any real 'reason' :confused: . For example (off the top of me head but quite appropriate :) ) Rutger Hauer's 'tears' speech at the end of Blade Runner was (supposedly) partly made up on the spot, but it's amazing so it was put into the film.

Just a thought. :)

TF.
LOL!! I think this is the answer I would have given. I really think that this was a cinematic decision rather than character development - because this does not coincide with how Grima was depicted in the book. He's greedy and wicked - why would he shed a tear for a people he felt nothing for? His main goal was to be powerful enough to do what he wants - not really because he cares for the welfare of the people of Rohan, but because he was a greedy swine.

This was a reaction from the actor, and PJ just decided to add it in. Looks good - yeah, let's use it.
 

Gigantor

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So basically we have Grima either gloriously happy over Saruman's vast army, or over the destruction of men that were his kind. Even after all these posts, I'm still confused. I don't think Grima was weeping over the distruction of men. I think he was rather expecting something great from his new master. If Grima ever had doubts about destroying the world of men, I don't think that it would be at this point. Not right before he fully betray's his master, and is at the peak in sharing with his master's power. And something just doesn't let me go for it being a tear of happiness or awe. Grima just doesn't seem like the type to get emotional and start crying when he is pleased. Also, after all Eowyn does to reject him, I think he was feeling pretty good for, perhaps, "paying her back". Or something.... I'm still confused, and I guess I always will be in this point of the movies. Oh well.
Maybe just maybe he was having second thoughts about chillin' with an evil wizard IDK
 

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