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Guilid of Pagans and Wiccans

reem

Lunacy is an art form
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here's something that i came across while reading 'tom jones':
can honor exist appart from religion?? and can an ill-character (i.e.theifs and muderers) have honor?? and isn't honor more connected to human-nature than anything else??
...should i start another thread for this or do we discuss this here...that's if any one wants to even discuss it:p
spirit? what do u think?
reem
 

spirit

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...can you keep a secret?
ya might as well just discuss it here reem. :D

i dont think thieves should have honour. they dont really deserve it. the living they make is not because of their hard work or anythink like that...:rolleyes:
 

spirit

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...can you keep a secret?
many ways.
one of them is when you do something great and people look up to you for that.
many other ways too.
but the thieves dont deserve honour because they get rich by just stealing, not because of their hard work and therefore they have nothing to be proud of! :eek:
 

Jesse

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ATTN: Spirit

May I re-join this guild? I feel I need to accquant (sp?) with the world religions if my evangelism is to be successful. I need to see things from their point of view....
 

spirit

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...can you keep a secret?
sure Jesse! All is welcome here!

and reem :), my dear mental friend, (hehe) :D, robin hood stole for a reason. that is ok, because he was stealing TO HELP OTHERS!! not just for himself you know. but the king (dunno kis name) stole from the poor, for him self!

and since robin hooh HELPED people, he shouldhabve honour, which he did!
 

Mithrandread

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hello

I was wandering, as is my wont, and I came into this noble Hall. Permit me to make an observation, and to ask a question:

I find it fascinationg that when one speaks of paganism, one immediately thinks of Western European spirituality and traditions. It appears that no one thinks of the great African beliefs and traditions, except to mock or slander them. Is there anyone who is familiar with some of the African or Native American spiritual traditions, as these are the two primary cultures to which I belong.

I have some iformation, but not much.

I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone...
 

reem

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ehm..u know spirit, ithink i'll open another thread for this one...it's gonna take alot of [email protected] so I think!hehe! feel free to join, i'd love to argue a few points on human nature with u!:p;)
reem
 

Athelas

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Yes, honor can exist apart from religion. It is very elusive to define. For me, it starts with Truth. Being true to others and especially as a Witch, it means being true to my word; never to break an oath, a vow, or a promise. Honor is something that no one can ever take from you; only you can cast it from yourself.
 

Athelas

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In other threads I have stated that I am both a Witch and a Gnostic Christian. I think the following will show how the ends of both faiths are the same.

Ecclesia Gnostica

There is an original and transcendental spiritual unity which came to emanate a vast manifestation of pluralities.

The manifest universe of matter and mind (psyche) was not created by the original spiritual unity but by spiritual beings possessing inferior powers.

These creators possessing inferior powers have as one of their objectives the perpetual separation of humans from the unity (God).

The human being is a composite, the outer aspect being the handiwork of the inferior creators, while the "inner man" has the character of a fallen spark of the ultimate divine unity.

The fallen sparks of transcendental holiness slumber in their material and mental prison, their self-awareness stupefied by forces of materiality and mind.

The slumbering sparks have not been abandoned by the ultimate unity, rather there is a constant effort forthcoming from this unity that is directed toward their awakening and liberation.

The awakening of the inmost divine essence in humans is effected by salvific knowledge, called Gnosis.

Salvific knowledge, or Gnosis, is not brought about by belief, or the performance of virtuous deeds, or by obedience to commandments, for these can at best but serve as preparatory circumstances leading toward liberating knowledge.

Among the helpers of the slumbering sparks a particular position of honor and importance belongs to a feminine emanation of the unity. The name of this emanation is Sophia (Wisdom). She was involved in the creation of the world and ever since remained the guide of her orphaned human children.

From the earliest times of history, messengers of light have been sent forth from the ultimate unity. The task of these messengers has ever been the advancement of Gnosis in the souls of humans.

The greatest of these messengers in our historical and geographical matrix was the descended Logos of God, manifesting in Jesus Christ.

Jesus exercised a twofold ministry: He was a teacher, imparting instruction concerning the way of Gnosis, and he was a hierophant, imparting mysteries.

The mysteries imparted by Jesus (which are also known as sacraments) are mighty aids toward Gnosis and have been entrusted by him to his apostles and to their successors.

By way of the spiritual practice of the mysteries (sacraments) and by a relentless and uncompromising striving for Gnosis, humans can steadily advance toward liberation from all confinement, material and otherwise.
The ultimate objective of this process of liberation is the achievement of salvific knowledge and with it freedom from embodied existence and return to the ultimate unity.
 

Freawine

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I was actually looking for a mythology guild, but this one will do fine, I guess. I'm not a wiccan, but a reconstructionist heathen, i.e., follow a reconstruction of pre-Christian Germanic religion, mostly known as Asatru, although this name is better applied to the specificly Norse branche. If you're wondering what a recon pagan is, try this:

http://www.ecauldron.com/reconindex.php

I focus mainly on scandinavian traditions and practices - well at least my patron god had a greater worship emphasis in Sweden - though I use an Old English nickname and may use germanic non-scandinavian material if it proves useful.

I hope to find some interesting debates here on pre-Christian religions and mythologies (and some nice people too, of course). Made a general reading of all the posts here and I' ll reply to some of them.

Wassail!
 

Athelas

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Merry Meet Freawine

>well at least my patron god had a greater worship emphasis in Sweden<

Who?

Asatru always have the best mead.

Welcome.
 

Freawine

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Greetings Athelas,

Originally posted by Athelas
Most Pagan pantheons will have only one god or goddess of war and one of death as distinct, individual deities. In the Greek, Ares is the god of War, and Hades is the God of the Underworld, for example.
Actually that's not exactly true. Pagan patheons can have more than one god or goddess of war, as with most other fuctions. Using the Greeks as an example as you did, Athena is also a goddess of war and many other gods - such as Zeus - are warriors as well. Hades is a different thing, since he got the Underworld after a division of the world between three gods: Zeus got the heavens, Posidon the sea and Hade the world bellow. And there may a difference between beyond a god of the realm of the dead and being one of death. Demeter, for instance, could have a role of death goddess, naturally coming from her agricultural function.

In terms of Scandinavian mythology, you can find Odin, Freya, Thor and Tyr as gods of war in one way or another. Odin and Freya are in many ways death god and goddess, while there's Hella, goddess of the underworld.

Godly functions are not easily set into strict and simple forms of god of A and goddess of B.

Wassail!
 

Freawine

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Re: Merry Meet Freawine

The god Freyr: he was see as the divine ancestor of the Swedish royal family. My nickname translates as "Lord's friend", which may end up being "Freyr's friend", since His name is actually a title meaning precisely "Lord".

And thank you for your welcoming.

Wassail!
 
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Freawine

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Hello spirit,

Originally posted by spirit
Hinduism is totally different to wicca!

i dont think so! wiccan and paganisn (IMO) seems like a one of a kind of thing! Satanism is totally different! (in a way) I dont believe in Satan!
Reem is right: Hinduism can fall into the paganism category. The same thing for Satanism and everysingle non-abrahamic religion. It so happens that pagan and paganism, in terms of its religious conotation, is a negative definition, i.e., it says what X isn't, not what it is. Here's a bit of history.

Pagan comes from latim paganu which means something like country-dweller. It's origin is pre-Christian and Roman civilization, being proeminently urban, would look at rural folk in a depreciatory manner. We still have something of this with peasants and folk from out of town. The word had no considerable religious meaning until the coming of Christianity. What happened then was that at one point of the conversion process there was a general division: the cities were mainly Christians - centers of power and cultural dissemination - while pre-Christian religions survived in the country areas, where comunication, access and culture diffusion was much more difficult. So the word paganu kept its negative meaning, but with an extra: a religious sense. Pagan isn't country-dweller because paganism is a nature religion - which by the way is incorrect anyway - but because it was in the rural area that pre-Christian religions persisted longer: besides being peasants they now were also non-christians, thus a pagan, originally, is a non-christian. By extension it may also refer to someone that's not a muslim or a jew.

Since it's a negative definition, anything not christian, muslim or jew is pagan and paganism, to the point that it's impossible to define a religion simply as being paganism. And no, it's not an equivalent for polytheism: Zoroastrianism is not an abrahamic religion.

Here's a good article on the subject:

http://www.ecauldron.com/newpagan.php

Wassail!
 

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