LOTR Purist to the end
- Aug 20, 2001
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But is it really God's definition of justice, or man's vengeful and retributive attitude towards sinners imposed on God? The human mind (in general) does not revolt at the idea of someone dying for a heinous crime when it is retributive. It does revolt at the idea of someone being kept alive under hideous pain with no thought of cessation or relief. Why would God be worse then us when his thoughts are higher than our thoughts?HLGStrider said:There are people who don't believe it is just to execute a murderer, for instance. Do you? I do. But if you don't and I do, justice obviously means different things to us. Why can't it mean a different thing to God than it does to you, and if it came down to trusting God or trusting you, I'd trust God's definition of just.
The problem is that we take this and try to apply it an eternal hell. We automatically accept that eternal torment is true and then accept on the basis that God is higher than us so we can't say that it is false or that God is wrong. That is thinking that paints us into a corner that we must accept this character of God. The character of God must be looked at first and used to interpret such a doctrine, not the other way around. When we do that we will find such a concept foreign to the nature of a being such as God.
It's all semantics. It doesn't change the fact that hell would exist for nothing more than torture and punishment. Why? Because God had to have made that hell first before we chose to go there.HLGStrider said:But that asside, your definition of Hell is more a matter of punishment than seperation. For the Devil it was punishment, the punishment of seperation, for us it is just seperation, an inevitable result of telling God to shove off.
That's like me digging a pit outside my classroom and telling my students not to leave the classroom. The kids do leave anyway and plummet to their deaths. I can try and justify myself by saying. "Hey, I warned them. They could have stayed in the classroom and been saved." It still begs the question:
What was the purpose for digging the hole to begin with?
And so it is with the traditional view of hell. You may say that the fires were prepared for the devil and his angels. That may be true but the devil and his angels don't get their reward until the end of time after the 1000 year reign in heaven of the saints after the end of the age. How could sinners go to this hell of torment at death when whom it was prepared for isn't even in it yet?? Is it really fair for Satan to burn the same amount of time with those poor souls who were deceived by him? If burning in fire is the punishment, don't you think that duration should be a retributive factor? Especially when the bible says that we will be judged by our works and Christ says in Revelation 22 that "his reward is with me to give every man according as his works shall be"?
Everyone is tossed in together, sinners, demons and all. It devours them and as Malachi says, "there is no root nor branch left and they (wicked) will be ashes under the soles of your feet" (Malachi 4:1-3).
When we understand that the 'wages of sin is death' (Romans 6:23) we see that everyone has sinned, therefore everyone gets the same punishment. Death is the harshest form of punishment that can be given on this world and every government instituted by God or allowed to reign by God has practiced it, even been commanded by God Himself to implement it. Why wouldn't God hold himself to His own word?
GOD: "Well, my Word says that the wages of sin is death, but hey. I've decided to commute that sentence to conscious life in fire. Death is too swift and painless. And even though my Word also says that I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, it doesn't say anything about the eternal fiery torment of the wicked. Of course, I won't take pleasure in that either despite the fact that it is ten times worse than your other punishment. I guess I'm going to just have to deal with it somehow."