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How long did the Nine....?

Khamul

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Does anyone know how long the nine had the rings before they were corrupted. And, would it be possible that if Gollum had kept the ring for a while longer, would he have become a wraith? And what part could he have held in ME?

Note: These may sound stupid, but you might as well give me an opinion.
 

Greenwood

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If I remember correctly in the Shadow of the Past chapter in FOTR when Gandalf tells Frodo about the Ring he says that Gollum actually didn't use the Ring alot after he was in the mountains because he didn't need to in the darkness underground. I believe Gandalf says that anyone using the Ring long enough would become a wraith.
 

Ăšlairi

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I can answer this one Sting. Greenwood, you are right, it does say that except I don't have my copy here because my best friend took it on a holiday with him!!! As for the Nazgul, it never actually says how long but just that it depended on the strength of their wills and whether or not that they were good or bad, if they were already bad, it was easier to control them.
 

Bucky

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From Appendix B, Tale of the Years:

1697 Sauron overruns Eregion. (At this time the 'lesser' Rings of Power were taken by Sauron)

2251 About this time the Nazgul, or Ringwraiths, slaves of the Nine Rings, first appear.

3441 Sauron overthrown...The Ringwraiths go into hiding.

The question is, when the Ringwraiths first appear, are they already in the 'shadow' world?

I would guess so myself.

Also, had Gollum 'faded' & entered the wraith-world, this what Gandalf told Frodo when Frodo asked what the Nazgul were trying to do at Weathertop:
"You would have become like them, only weaker & under their command. You would have become a wraith under the dominion of the Dark Lord."
 

Anarchist

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The 9 were corrupted by the nine rings given to men. I don't know if this means that someone who wears the One can also be corrupted and turned to a wraith. But there is also another way. I don't recall any quotes but when Frodo was hit by the Nazgul and then barely rescued, I think it was Gandalf who said that it was a matter of time before he was turned to a Nazgul himself. I think that this was compined with him carrying the One with him.
 

Khamul

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Yes, I knew that Gollum didnt use the ring much and that it would have taken more years for him to become a wraith. But, also what part could he have then played. He would have been no help to Frodo, and probably would be locked in Mordor, or would be set loose on a constant frenzy for the ring. Opinions?
 

Greenwood

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From The Shadow of the Past, Gandalf speaking:

"A mortal Frodo, who keeps one of the Great Rings, does not die, but he does not grow or obtain more life, he merely continues, until at last every minute is a weariness. And if he often uses the Ring to make himself invisible, he fades: he becomes in the end invisible permanently, and walks in the twilight under the eye of the dark power that rules the Rings. Yes, sooner or later -- later, if he id dtrong or well-meaning to begin with, but neither strength nor good purpose will last -- sooner or later the dark power will devour him." [italics in original]
 

Khamul

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Yes, I do remember that part in FOTR. Since Gollum was also a Stoor(I think that was the type of hobbit) he had more resistance to the ring, but if he was ever fully engulfed in the Shadow World, would he have any immunity to what men would feel? Or would he have the same fate as them?

And, figuratively what part could Gollum have played in the War of the Ring? (This is a personal opinion question, and I would like to hear your imput.)
 

Ăšlairi

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Gollum was a Stoor, which was not a type of hobbit but the actual Hobbit ancestors. As for Gollum playing a part in the War of the Ring, he stole the Ring from his cousin Deagol after murdering him, lost it, got captured by Sauron but was released, got captured by one of Aragorn's rangers (can't remember his name at the moment), escaped, followed the Fellowship, took Frodo and Sam to Mordor without being captured, attempted to deliver them to Shelob and then fell in the Crack of Doom with the Ring in his hand, hence destroying Sauron. That just about sums up what he had to do with the War of the Ring. As for Gollum showing resilience to the Ring, I disagree, he barely used it and it had an immediate influence upon him, he killed his cousin for it and he hadn't even touched it!!! I don't think that that shows much resilience. I know you said figurartively but the part Gollum played was huge and I don't think he could have done much else!
 

Ăšlairi

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Originally posted by Ulairi
Gollum was a Stoor, which was not a type of hobbit but the actual Hobbit ancestors. As for Gollum playing a part in the War of the Ring, he stole the Ring from his cousin Deagol after murdering him, lost it, got captured by Sauron but was released, got captured by one of Aragorn's rangers (can't remember his name at the moment), escaped, followed the Fellowship, took Frodo and Sam to Mordor without being captured, attempted to deliver them to Shelob and then fell in the Crack of Doom with the Ring in his hand, hence destroying Sauron. That just about sums up what he had to do with the War of the Ring. As for Gollum showing resilience to the Ring, I disagree, he barely used it and it had an immediate influence upon him, he killed his cousin for it and he hadn't even touched it!!! I don't think that that shows much resilience. I know you said figurartively but the part Gollum played was huge and I don't think he could have done much else!
I spelt figuratively wrong! Just re-posting in case someone picks that up! It was a typo anyway.
 

Greenwood

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Stoors are hobbits. There are three breeds of hobbits: Stoors, Harfoots and Fallohides. Gandalf says that Gollum's people were "akin to the fathers of the fathers of the Stoors". In other words ancestors of one of the hobbit breeds.
 

Ăšlairi

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Greenwood, perhaps you could give us evidence as to where this is mentioned. Because in the Tale of Years it mentions only the Stoors moving to the Shire area and becoming Hobbits. I have never heard of Harfoots before. Please explain!
 

Greenwood

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Originally posted by Ulairi
Greenwood, perhaps you could give us evidence as to where this is mentioned. Because in the Tale of Years it mentions only the Stoors moving to the Shire area and becoming Hobbits. I have never heard of Harfoots before. Please explain!
It is in the first section "Concerning Hobbits" of the Prologue at the beginning of FOTR. The specific quote is: "Before the crossing of the mountains the Hobbits had already become divided into three somewhat different breeds: Harfoots, Stoors, and Fallohides." The passage goes on to describe the differences between the three kinds of hobbits.
 

Khamul

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Yes, I happen to remember that. I agree with Greenwood on this one.
 

Greenwood

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Originally posted by Ulairi
Thankyou Greenwood, I forgot about that.
Any time. One should always be prepared to back up a statement with the relevant quote from the book or make it clear you are stating an opinion. Of course, sometimes I may be stating an opinion based on an interpretation of something found in Tolkien, but I should always be prepared to back it up. :)
 

tyeruler

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it is hard to say how long the nine had the rings, but one could say that they didn't have them for very long before they were corupted. After all, they seem to have been under the Dark Lord's power. If they do all that he says they are some heavily drugged zombies!!!
 

Ăšlairi

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Originally posted by Greenwood


Any time. One should always be prepared to back up a statement with the relevant quote from the book or make it clear you are stating an opinion. Of course, sometimes I may be stating an opinion based on an interpretation of something found in Tolkien, but I should always be prepared to back it up. :)
Couldn't agree more. My posts won't be as valid as they originally were, because my best friend is reading my only copy of LoTR and I won't be getting it back for a while!
 

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