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Is Sauron really gone?

Úlairi

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:confused: I have read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales along with Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit so I believe I know what I am talking about here. Sauron is a maia, we all know that, and the maia are undying. Gandalf was resurrected from the dead. So when the ring was destroyed was Sauron really killed? I would like to hear some views but I am pretty sure that Sauron still exists in the spirit world, but doesn't have the power to come back into the physical world. Would I be correct in saying this?:confused:
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Originally posted by Ulairi
:confused: I have read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales along with Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit so I believe I know what I am talking about here. Sauron is a maia, we all know that, and the maia are undying. Gandalf was resurrected from the dead. So when the ring was destroyed was Sauron really killed? I would like to hear some views but I am pretty sure that Sauron still exists in the spirit world, but doesn't have the power to come back into the physical world. Would I be correct in saying this?:confused:


You could be but i beleive that Sauron had passed a lot of his spirit into the ring and when that was destroyed so he was hurt and couldn't resume spirit form or pyshical form in M.E again maybe he is with melkor in the timeless void? It is hard 2 say.
 

Telchar

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As a Maia Sauron can't be killed, but his spirit can be deminished(sp?). So I don't think he was killed when the One Ring was destroyed, he lost so much power that he forever lost the ability to take on a visible and physical. He may roam the lands and poses living beeings, but that is probably all. ;)
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Originally posted by Telchar
As a Maia Sauron can't be killed, but his spirit can be deminished(sp?). So I don't think he was killed when the One Ring was destroyed, he lost so much power that he forever lost the ability to take on a visible and physical. He may roam the lands and poses living beeings, but that is probably all. ;)

Yes that is what could have happened. He could also have been able 2 scare and influence people with like terror? I'm not 2 sure.
 
G

Gandalf 2058

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According to the Silmarillion, it says that Sauron was utterly vanquished. I like this view because it shows Sauron finally being defeated and not being able to come back, although he may have been a spirit until the end of the world and not able to cause any more harm to middle-earth.
 

Arvedui

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From Valaquenta; Of the Enemies
Among those of his [Morgot's] servants that have names the greatest was that spirit whom the Eldar called Sauron, or Gorthaur the Cruel. [...] But in after years he rose like a shadow of Morgoth and a ghost of his malice, and walked behind him on the same ruinous path down into the Void.
This seems to indicate that Sauron does not die, but that his spirit is sent to the Void, where he probably makes Morgoth's coffee.
 

Melko Belcha

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The Letters of JRR Tolkien - #131
"But to achieve this he (Sauron) had been obliged to let a great part of his own inherent power pass into the One Ring. While he wore it, his power on earth was actually enhanced. But even if he did not wear it, that power existed and was in 'rapport' with himself: he was not 'diminished'...............if the One Ring was actually unmade, annihilated, then its power would be dissolved, Sauron's own being would be diminished to vanishing point, and he would be reduced to a shadow, a mere memory of malicious will."
 

MacAddict

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If I may bring a little comedy to this...

I quote the great game "Escape from Monkey Island" ~ "But as we know evil dead bad guys rarely stay dead (Espeacially in Comic books and graphic adventure games)"

Thank for reading, You may now return to your serious disscussion :D


~MacAddict
 

BlackCaptain

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But Olorin was sent back to fulfill his duties.

Sauron was not killed, nor destroyed. His physicalness, and all of his fear was gone; utterly destroyed. His Maia spirit was (as soon as he was destroyed via the One Ring) sent back to Aman (where all Maia go when they're destroyed in physical form) and the Valar would most definately not allow him to go back to ME in any form again, seeing as how he tried to take it over. He might have been sent into the void, I don't know.
 

Ithrynluin

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His physicalness, and all of his fear was gone; utterly destroyed.
His fëa was not gone (just diminished), only his hroa was, and the ability to ever take physical shape.

His Maia spirit was (as soon as he was destroyed via the One Ring) sent back to Aman
We have no reason to make such an assumption. Saruman was denied passage into the West (as is seen in the chapter 'The Scouring of the Shire')

back to Aman (where all Maia go when they're destroyed in physical form)
You're confusing this with Elves, and even they can refuse the summons. The Ainur do not go to the Halls of Mandos, unlike the incarnates.

and the Valar would most definately not allow him to go back to ME in any form again, seeing as how he tried to take it over. He might have been sent into the void, I don't know.
He might have been sent into the void, but since his spirit would never be able to take physical form upon itself, there would be no point in sending him into the Void. He was reduced to an impotent spirit.
 

BlackCaptain

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Agh! As soon as I saw you posted after me in this thread I knew I was in for some mass editing! Haha... Well anyways I'm not even gonna try and say any different. I agree with what you said...:rolleyes: :D
 

Confusticated

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No Yay, there is nothing that says they can not. They can, or at least try to.
 

Arvedui

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After reading your comments, a questions came sneaking up from behind and hit me in the back of the head:

Can Ilúvatar undo what he has made? Can he have undone Sauron and Saruman?
 

Ithrynluin

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Originally posted by Arvedui
Can Ilúvatar undo what he has made? Can he have undone Sauron and Saruman?
Even if he could, I don't think he would.;) He could have simply prevented Melkor from doing evil from the outset. All things have their appointed part to act out for good or for evil,but whichever it is it will turn out to enrich good and Iluvatar's purpose in the End.
 

Arvedui

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Then what happened to the spirits of Sauron and Saruman?
Are they lingering in the shadows, as minor evils spirits? Unable to take shape again, and just gnawing at their own spent malice?
 

Ithrynluin

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Why not? Sounds a good enough punishment to me. Either that or the Void! :)
 

Flammifer

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I have not read the Silmarillion but I have read a lot about the Maiar in posts from others, and it seems likely enough to me that Sauron is in the Void or just a lingering spirit. Bear in mind the words of Gandalf during the Last Debate:

"If [the One Ring] is destroyed, then he [Sauron] will fall; and his fall will be so low that none can foresee his arising ever again. For he will lose the best part of the strength that was native to him in his beginning...and he will be maimed for ever, becoming a mere spirit of malice that gnaws itself in the shadows, but cannot again grow or take [physical] shape."

Gandalf says that "none can foresee his arising ever again", he does not say that Sauron will be gone, he simply won't arise.

Sauron will just become a mere spirit of malice, and will not be able to again take shape.
 

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