🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

Manwe and Melkor: Power

dgoof911

Registered User
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
49
Reaction score
0
Location
Amidst the writings of Tolkien
Is Melkor more powerful then Manwe? I am about half done with the Sil and I was wondering. Eru created Melkor as the Top Ainur, but Melkor turned evil, and Manwe was supposed to be the most powerful, now was Melkor more powerful than Manwe ( I also beleive they were brothers), or was Manwe more powerful than Melkor?
 

baraka

Elven Craftsmen
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
360
Reaction score
1
Location
Outworld
Melkor

I would have to say that Melkor in the beginning was the most powerful. It is said that when he turned to evil, he gived some of it´s power to his creations.

I think that Lord Melkor can answer this better than anyone.
 

Telchar

Someone out there?
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
416
Reaction score
0
Location
Vestfold, Norway
Manwe - Melkor

Melkor was Manwe's brother in the mind of Ilúvatar. But Melkor is usually reffered to as the most powerful. The differenc between Melkor and Manwe is that Melkor used his powers in a different way than all the other Valar.

The Power of a Vala is finite(sp?). And during the first age Melkor used his power to contol his forces. In this way Melkor bound some of his Power to other beeings, he wasted his power on controling other beeings. In this he deminished his power as time went, and after the War of Wrath, when he faced Manwe for the last time, Melkor was not as powerful as he once was.
 

Beleg Strongbow

Superior Elf
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
698
Reaction score
0
Location
Doriath AND Sydney Australia and where ever "SHE"
Re: Manwe - Melkor

Originally posted by Telchar
Melkor was Manwe's brother in the mind of Ilúvatar. But Melkor is usually reffered to as the most powerful. The differenc between Melkor and Manwe is that Melkor used his powers in a different way than all the other Valar.

The Power of a Vala is finite(sp?). And during the first age Melkor used his power to contol his forces. In this way Melkor bound some of his Power to other beeings, he wasted his power on controling other beeings. In this he deminished his power as time went, and after the War of Wrath, when he faced Manwe for the last time, Melkor was not as powerful as he once was.


Thats right apart from that Melkor faced tulkas in the war of wrath and manwe didn't go his herald maia Eonwe did.
 

Ståle

Registered User
Joined
Dec 1, 2001
Messages
47
Reaction score
1
Location
Norway
Hmm...would that mean Aulë too would become less powerful as he gave "power" into the Dwarves? And Yavanna to Laurelin and Telperion?
 

dgoof911

Registered User
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
49
Reaction score
0
Location
Amidst the writings of Tolkien
Maybe Yavanna some of her power into the trees, therefore, when Ungoliant killed them, some of her was killed. Much like Sauron put his power into the ring to beable to rule all. Sauron followed the path of his Master Morgoth.
 

Beleg Strongbow

Superior Elf
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
698
Reaction score
0
Location
Doriath AND Sydney Australia and where ever "SHE"
Originally posted by dgoof911
Maybe Yavanna some of her power into the trees, therefore, when Ungoliant killed them, some of her was killed. Much like Sauron put his power into the ring to beable to rule all. Sauron followed the path of his Master Morgoth.

No i don't think so. Sauron used his 2 dominate and aule and yavanna had the good will of iluvatar and were creating stuff for others. It is Also said that Aule was most liked 2 melkor in his skill of hand. Thats also because the 2 tress were unbeleivable works of art and she was tired of everything of hers being marred by melkor. Sauron do you think he could make the ring again, or celembrimbor, or feanor or earandil with his boat or melkor with the dargons? Also melkor didn't create much he just corrupted.;) ;) ;) ;)
 

Camille

Of the Edain
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Then hate overcame Fëanor's fear, and he cursed Melkor and bade him be gone, saying: "Get thee gone from my gae, thou jail-crow of mandos!" and he shut the doors of his house in the face of the mightiest of all the dwellers in Eä
That states that in Eä melkor was the mightiests, even Manwë
 

Camille

Of the Edain
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
another quote:
Then Iluvatar spoke, and he said: "Mighty are the Ainur and mightiest among them is Melkor, but that may he know, and all the ainur, the I am Iluvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done.
Greetings :)
 

Telchar

Someone out there?
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
416
Reaction score
0
Location
Vestfold, Norway
Re: Re: Manwe - Melkor

Originally posted by Beleg Strongbow
Thats right apart from that Melkor faced tulkas in the war of wrath and manwe didn't go his herald maia Eonwe did.
I know, but IIRC it's said that Melkor faced Manwe before he was thrusted out into the Void.
 

Lord Melkor

Registered User
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Of course I am more powerful, as well as smarter and sexier( Varda is ignorant)! Manwe= Iluwatar`s slave, me=Iluvatar`s rival, first free being to exist, and I haven`t said my last word!

I also believe that other Valar invested much of their power when they helped me shape Arda and later created Valinor!

And how dare you criticize me for creating Orcs/Trolls/Dragons etc.! Without them Arda would be a very poor place, not to mention their helped me achieve more that I could do alone!

By the way if Dragons, Children of Melkor, are greater than Iluvatar`s Children( elves and humans) then am I not greater than him in some way?!
 

Woo

3rd lieutenant of Melkor
Joined
Oct 30, 2001
Messages
48
Reaction score
0
Location
London
Well Mr Melkor if ure children are greater than Eru's, why did ur greatest dragon Glaurung get punch up by turin a mere mortal human.
And besides all ure great children i.e. dragons are dead!?
U sure they are greater than Eru's children?
Well if ure children were as smart as Sauron i would commend u for creating but oh well!:D
 

Telchar

Someone out there?
Joined
Aug 28, 2001
Messages
416
Reaction score
0
Location
Vestfold, Norway
The Cildren of Melkor? Melkor could not create any living beeing, all the creatures he "created" were only made in mockery(sp?) of other beeings, who was created by Iluvatar. ;)

Camille; Eä is the definition of all that is, so Melkor can't be the mightiest, Iluvatar is, since Iluvatar isn't finite like the Valar.
 

Camille

Of the Edain
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Camille; Eä is the definition of all that is, so Melkor can't be the mightiest, Iluvatar is, since Iluvatar isn't finite like the Valar.
Hello Telchar I am just posting quotes from the Sil ;)
and you Lord melkor: in another part in the sil I dont remember.. after the flight of the noldor it said that melkor have lost power because he used a lot of this in the perversion of the dragons and all that, and that is the reason for him not going out of angband except once... to answer in fear to the Fingolfin call!!!! ( I love that part dont you?) I will post the exact quote later
Greetings :D
 

Beleg Strongbow

Superior Elf
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
698
Reaction score
0
Location
Doriath AND Sydney Australia and where ever "SHE"
Originally posted by Camille


Hello Telchar I am just posting quotes from the Sil ;)
and you Lord melkor: in another part in the sil I dont remember.. after the flight of the noldor it said that melkor have lost power because he used a lot of this in the perversion of the dragons and all that, and that is the reason for him not going out of angband except once... to answer in fear to the Fingolfin call!!!! ( I love that part dont you?) I will post the exact quote later
Greetings :D

No i'm not sure and i can't wait for that quote.
 
Last edited:

dgoof911

Registered User
Joined
Jan 17, 2002
Messages
49
Reaction score
0
Location
Amidst the writings of Tolkien
So Melkor started out as the most powerful, but to make evil creatures, he had to use more and more of his power and put it inside these creatures. So he slowly lost power and therefore Manwe was more powerful.
 

Beleg Strongbow

Superior Elf
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
698
Reaction score
0
Location
Doriath AND Sydney Australia and where ever "SHE"
Originally posted by dgoof911
So Melkor started out as the most powerful, but to make evil creatures, he had to use more and more of his power and put it inside these creatures. So he slowly lost power and therefore Manwe was more powerful.

No i don't think so. I just think that manwe lost maybe a bit of power being not counted as a valar. But i beleive that melkor is more powerful but manwe uses his power better.
 

Thread suggestions

Top