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Monstrous Invention

H

Harad

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BALROGS

I am going to go out on a limb (start looking around for your saws) to say that the Balrog was the only monster that was a pure JRRT invention. We can rule out:

Orc=Goblin=ubiquitious fairy tale creature
Dragon=u.f.t.c.
Troll=u.f.t.c
Nazgul=variation of a Vampire
Giant Spiders= Spider (giant)
Shelob=Spider (enormous)
Ungoliant=Spider (maximus)
Watcher in the Water: Kraken or close variant
Sauron= Bad semi-hemi-deity (e.g. fallen angel)
Morgoth= Bad semi-deity (e.g. Satan)
Wing-ed Steed= Rodan/Pterodactyl

Balrog=? well...kind of a demon...it is a nifty name anyway...
 

Khamul

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ROTFL, Harad, you must have alot of time on your hands.;)
 

Landroval

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I'm not quite sure where you get the Nazgul/Vampire connection. I would have said Ghost (Wraith after all). Other than that, I can't think of any counter examples.

In my mind, a more interesting question is where did he get his "good guys"? Specifically, where in **ll did Bombadil and Beorn come from? What's up with them? :)
 

daisy

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I think Harad was after negative entities...although this was just my assumption...:)
I agree that Treebeard and friends were definitely an original thought bubble - makes me wish J>R>had investigated them more....
 
H

Harad

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I agree that Ents are an excellent example on the "positive" side. Anti-Monsters.

Nazgul are undead like Vampires but don't drink blood--probably a necessary--so wraith is right. Maybe "liche."

Barrow wights also are one of these...what is the difference between a liche and a wraith?
 

Bucky

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Harad:
Here's my olive branch, just for you.......

I always thought the Nazgul was 'loosely' based on the vampire's 'undead' legend too. Neither alive nor dead, living in this world, but not 'of' it in a 'normal' sense. Doomed to eternal suffering on the earth.

Of course, Tolkien goes off on his own tangent from there.
 

daisy

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Do the Palantir count even though they were not technically alive?
 

daisy

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Yeah Yeah smart... uh... head:p

Okay what about....Bill the pony, the most monstrous of all....
 

Bill the Pony

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Hey! Ok, I know I am being drawn out by Daisy here. But I'm not biting (unless you offer me a carrot). But I know for a fact that I am based on Chris's favorite pony! And I was chris's best friend for a very long time, never threw him off. We used to go tramping in the countryside all the time.


ps never take an insulted little horse seriously
 

Bucky

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I don't know about Bill, but Eorl the Young's horse that could talk was obviously inspired by Mister Ed......
 

daisy

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I worship at the altar of Bill the Pony, man - sorry if I hurt a little horse's feelings - MY GOD WHO IS THE MONSTER NOW IF IT IS NOT MYSELF?????:eek:

What about the Ring itself, huh? HUH???
 
H

Harad

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Actually the Ring is a good one, Daisy, but that gets into the question of whether its a Monster or a Machine.

I know Liches from games like Ultima and Baldur's Gate so I am going to switch the Nazgul from a Vampire to a Liche, mainly because of that "blood" thing. Olive branches always welcome, Bucky.
 

Bucky

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I thought Liches were those sweet little fruity things in heavy syrup that the Chinese use for dessert......
 
H

Harad

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Well...yes. One of JRRT themes in life and literature was that machines were monstrous. Lets get back to the simple times of bad sanitation, disease, and starvation, sez he. Machines get imbued with the Evil of their makers. They become Evil Machines. But most, all?, real machines can be used for Good or Evil. The Ring, fuggetaboutit. Only Evil. Altho avoiding the S-Bs does seem like a decent, if not Good use.

Bucky, lets just hope you dont run into a Liche commanding a rotting castle and hope to prevail with chopsticks.
 

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