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My God, It Was Horrible!

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Thorin

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Rasta, I do not hate the movie. As a matter of fact, I have not seen the movie and I do intend to do so despite my disgust at the gross liberties that PJ has taken with it. Only a fool expects the movie to be exactly like the book. I have never done so. However, if PJ claims to be a Tolkien fan and states that he is making it as true to the book as possible, he is a liar because he has not and he is deceiving the public who are unaware of JRR Tolkien's LoTR. This is wrong and the many of the changes he made are gross misrepresentations of what Tolkien intended. Plus he added in his own ideas and claims (like you and others) that you can't possibly fit all of LoTR into the movie...well, no kidding. How does that justify his own ridiculous creations? That is so wrong and if you were a true Tolkien fan, you would acknowledge and admonish PJ for doing so.

Great! Pat PJ on the back for making a valiant effort and an exciting movie! But call a spade a spade! It is not a great representation of Tolkien's LoTR. He did not have to change so much, nor add in so much other junk. He is speaking out of both sides of his mouth and people should recognize that as much as praise him for the things he did right. I haven't heard you do that.

And BTW, I reported you because of the use of your atrocious language, not your narrow opinions. There is a rule against using profanity on this board, especially if it is directed against others. If you can't state your opinions with out calling someone a "motherf----" and telling them to "suck your ----" then you can't have anything reasonable to contribute.

If the moderators choose to boot you, that is there choice and your undoing. Maybe you should mail them and ask for their forgiveness about using the language if you were unaware. :rolleyes:
 
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rast_lotrlover

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heheh, ok, well, im not exactly patting PJ on the back, but oh well. lets just pretend i never said anything and ill leave all the insults we've thrown around behind. just take me for the extreme lotr fan i am, not the PJ-lover. just ignore the part that i like the movie,.
 

Shanoncia

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Just a question....

Is it not the director's job to create the movie the way he sees it using his own brilliant mind ? Aren't the actors and plot just a tool for them to communicate the things they see inside?

You decide. I do not have the answers to these questions.
 

Asha'man

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Well, I saw the movie today, and I thought it was fantastic. The effects, costumes, casting, acting......all great. As most of you from the old board know, I'm not a huge fan, but after seeing the movie I may (and I hate to say this) just have to read the books again. :eek: :)

As I'm not a hardcore fan like you all, I didn't have much of a mental picture of what things should look like, so I thought PJ did a good job interpreting those elements of it. I didn't like Arwen and her "warrior chick-ness", but since I don't even remember anything about her from the books, that's not a huge point for me. Is it just me, or did both Arwen and Galadriel have JRULS (Julia Roberts upper lip syndrome)? Bugs the heck outta me.

I liked the fighting. Boy, did I ever like the fighting. Not nearly bloody enough, though. *SPOILER COMING* (although, considering the nature of this thread, that doesn't really matter) When this Lurtz dude lost his head to Aragorn, it didn't bleed. Not a bit. Realistically, his carotid would be spurting blood (black?) eight feet in the air, and it would be leaking out of the head stump, too. Did Boromir really take three broadheads in the chest in the book? And kept fighting? I tend to think not. I really liked Legolas and his speed-shooting - Grab-nock-draw-shoot-grab-nock-draw-shoot........very cool. Never ran out of arrows, though. Hmm...... Does make me want to take up archery. :)

Was is just me, or did Gimli have a double-headed axe when he hit the Ring? Seemed like the blow chipped one head off, and he used the remaining one for the rest of the film.

The Balrog: very cool. I didn't see if it had wings or not, because I don't give a damn. I liked the cave troll, too. Did anyone else notice the resemblance between the cave troll and the troll in Potter? :)

Anyway. I'll be online a lot in the next couple of weeks, as I'll be recuperating from foot surgery, so I'll probably have lots more to say and ask about the film.

Off to get some sleep before they cut me up,
I remain most enchantingly and (currently) pain-free yours,

Asha'man
 

rast_lotrlover

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haha, Rand's One-Power channeling servant, youre a funny guy! u act alot like a guy i know. anyways, he does take arrows and keep fighting. i havent seen hairy potter so i wouldnt know what that troll looked like, but hell, a troll is a troll, shouldnt they look alike? now, i saw the movie 3 times and i assure you that the balrog had wings of shadow or something of the like.
and heres an interesting fact, in #2 or 3(im not sure which) ,to make it look like Legolas is drawing arrows and shooting them realy fast, they cut the movie when hes right between taking the arrow out and notching it, so it looks like hes going really fast, cool huh?
i dont know about the axe part, ill tell you when i go see it again (i plan on seeing it a few more times this weekend)
 

Bucky

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I don't get the fuss.

I also don't know the level of expertise on Middle Earth I'm dealing with here as this is my first time on a Tolkien discussion board.

I haven't spent the last 3 years trying to glean every bit of information about this movie.
I don't debate where Maglor may have gone after the end of the First Age.
Or where the Red Mountains may be.
Or how & why Elrond's 2 sons became mortal for not going to Valinor with the last ship, or how Frodo & Bilbo could become immortal when it is clearly stated that the 'beings', not the land itself, made them live forever......

But I have read TLOR about 25 times in the past 25 years. The last time was about a year ago when I read it out loud to my 10 year old daughter, with a different voice for each character. She cried when she thought Frodo died at the end of The Two Towers.
So, I knew every mistake, every change & omission.


My response? SO WHAT.
Being tortured for making this abomination? Get a grip, pal.
It's not like this was a movie about Jesus & the producer twisted every story & detail in the Gospels.....
First, the only way everything in the trilogy was going to get put on screen would be in a 25-30 hour mini-series on TV.
Second, if you want a perfect copy of TLOR, read the books.

I was reminded of what Christopher Tolkien wrote in the foreward to 'The Silmarillion', and I paraphrase:
"It fell upon me to finish (edit & organize, not write) my father's work. That it should remain unpublished was unthinkable. A complete consistency within it, or to my father's other published works, is not be looked for."

So, what we got was a shorter than intended version. What Tolkien intended for The Silmarillion can be seen in 'Unfinished Tales', where 2 stories, 'Of Tour and his Coming To Gondolin' & 'Narn I Hin Hurin' are partially embellished on a grander scale comparable to TLOR.
I don't know about you all, but I personally glad that Tolkien's son finished up & published The Silmarillion in it's imperfect form, and the same goes with the movie....

A complete consistency with TLOR is not to be looked for. It sure was better than nothing.

Personally, I loved the movie, great scenery, great special effects, mostly great characters.
The theatre I was at Tuesday at midnight, there were 300+ people there & ONE couple got up during the movie's 3 hours.
You should've seen the line to the men's room at 3AM......

If you're worried about filmed scenes cut out, I bet many will be in the DVD release anyhow.
 

Gloer

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Bucky!

Wellcome Bucky!

Your view is right on target!
Especially what you say about Silmarillion.
It is very good to compare Silmarillion and this film.
The movie is not the best movie ever nor a very good adaption of the book either. The flaws are not so much in the character portrayals (only Saruman is screwed up). It is in the editing and bad pacing. There is hardly any narration after the great prologue, nor enough rest&light sequences to give feel of time and space and depth of characters. Why to reduse the great dialogue between Saruman and Gandalf into a fight?

I enjoyed Silmarillion maybe more because it was a framework story and not as detailed as LOTR. If Tolkien had written Silmarillion as he did TLORT, the book would have been 10000 pages long! Or divided into a series of books. It would have been great.
But then - Christopher Tolkiens Silmarillion gives a better overall view on the first age.
 

Valinorean

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Hey there Mike B! You are famous!

And you are right about the pony. I wonder if he will show up at the end of the last movie.

And which finger WAS the ring on?
 

Bucky

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One character I thought was portrayed wrongly was Strider when Elrond says that "He chose his path" as if Aragorn had chosen not to be King.....
There wasn't too much embelishing of that afterwards & we'll see how it develops in the next 2 films....

Another was that I thought Merry & Pippin were too goofy & Sam didn't say all the stupid sayings from his gaffer....

But, these are minor complaints.

Did anybody ever see The Hobbit cartoon?
It came out around '76 & was my first exposure to Middle Earth. There's many omissions & simplifications of the story there. They even say that 6 or 7 of the 13 Dwarves died.....
I'm sure many Tolkien purists were aghast back then.
But, it got me to read the books.
And I'm sure this film will do the same.

Besides, has there ever been a movie better than the book?

On the Silmarillion, when I read it, I cut to 'Unfinished Tales' & read those 2 stories where they fit in with the published text of the book.
It probably would've been thousands of pages had the whole thing been written on that scale, but I prefer the long, detailed storytelling approach to the brief history book final version.
Tolkien would've had to live until now to complete it on the larger scale however.
 
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Manwe

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Children, please.

Some of you seem quite irate for no good reason.

It makes depressing reading.

It's a film. Remember that, and hold onto that fact. It's not a book. The book (of the same name) is, equally not a film. If some fool decided to film the whole thing without any changes, you'd get a three week long unwatchable mess. Rather than taking the flawed route of the Bakshi cartoon, and chucking as much of the book as possible into a stupidly short amount of time, the new movie is a re-written version of the story. And only a baboon in mans clothing would ever expect it to be otherwise.

So let's look at the film on its own merits. Those who claim it to be unwatchable are, frankly, lying. As a film there's *nothing* wrong with it - except the technically crap special effects when Galadriel considers accepting the ring.

I was surprised (and, I admit, initially unhappy) at some of the changes. I got over it. Look at the film - it's amazing. Did you similarly slate the stage production of "The Hobbit"? I expect not. On stage you're allowed to make concessions because that's the way of it. Why should a film be any different?

Stop being so childish. No one really cares about your petty sulking, but it annoys me because it makes the world a very slightly less happy place for absolutely no reason.

If you love the book so much, read it and enjoy it. And be prepared to accept the fact that someone has to make an interpretation of it for the story to be told through any other medium. If you're close-minded enough to insist that no one should ever adjust any part of the work, then shut yourself away with the religious zealots, racists and other perjudiced things that slink across this planet, and allow others the chance to enjoy celebrating the book in a variety of ways.

And if you don't accept any of the above statements, remember:

IT IS JUST A FILM.

So stop whining about it - if you don't like it, don't watch it but stop making everyone else miserable.

Feel free to bombard me with lots of nasty replies if it makes you feel better. But please don't assume that I'm stupid, that I've little knowledge of The Lord of the Rings, or that I do not love the book.

Apologies to those of you to whom this does not concern.
 
H

hraerek

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Very good Manwe,

Exactly what I was trying to say earlier. You said it so much better. (If you need me in the shield wall I'll be there). Hraerek
 
M

mbarlo

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Spot on, Manwe. Also well said Bucky

There are things that could have been better, but it was still a great film and the best we are likely to get for a long time.

It's pretty brave to make a film where maybe 300 million people know the story and love it and will be comparing it to a book so vast that even 3 x 3 hour films will only scratch the surface of all the detail.

Martin
 

Unicef

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Re: Children, please.

Originally posted by Manwe

I was surprised (and, I admit, initially unhappy) at some of the changes. I got over it. Look at the film - it's amazing. Did you similarly slate the stage production of "The Hobbit"? I expect not. On stage you're allowed to make concessions because that's the way of it. Why should a film be any different?

Stop being so childish. No one really cares about your petty sulking, but it annoys me because it makes the world a very slightly less happy place for absolutely no reason.

If you love the book so much, read it and enjoy it. And be prepared to accept the fact that someone has to make an interpretation of it for the story to be told through any other medium. If you're close-minded enough to insist that no one should ever adjust any part of the work, then shut yourself away with the religious zealots, racists and other perjudiced things that slink across this planet, and allow others the chance to enjoy celebrating the book in a variety of ways.

And if you don't accept any of the above statements, remember:

IT IS JUST A FILM.

Thanks Manwe and Bucky. I think you are both on the right track. I also think those of you who are personally wounded to the film, read Roger Ebert's review at http://www.suntimes.com It's some enlightening reading. Look up Roger Ebert under columnists - Sorry - I would post the exact link but I have to leave work.

Unicef
 

Beorn

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Never did I say that the film was going to be the book. I've never seen the Hobbit visually, so I cannot comment.

Who said being childish was bad...Who says I cannot express my feelings. Yelling is a good way, childish, yet one of the best ways to relieve stress

I'm famous...Well, not really...
 

markrob

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Hail to MANWE!!

BRAVO, BRAVO MANWE, ISN'T IT AMAZING, BAFFLES MY MIND OF THE CRITICISM. I TRIED TO REASON WITH THEM EARLIER BUT TO NO AVAIL. I AM GLAD TO KNOW THERE ARE OTHERS OUT THERE LIKE ME WHO LOVES LOTR'S BUT AM NOT GOING TO MAKE MYSELF MISERABLE OVER A BOOK/FILM ADAPTATION! LIFE IS TOO SHORT.
 

Elendil

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Frodo was diminished.

Roger Ebert's review made me feel better, because I felt the same way. I saw many changes to the story, some of which I was pretty unhappy about. However, my main problem was the fact that the hobbits, the main characters of the story, were diminished in their roles, bravery, and spirit.

This is particularly true of Frodo. [Spoilers!]

In the film, Frodo did not attack the king of the Black Riders, instead he shrinks backwards and is stabbed.

He does not stand alone at the Ford and command the Riders to go back to Mordor, he sits sickly like a lump on Arwen's horse while she works her magic spell.

Worst of all, as I have mentioned, Frodo sees Merry and Pippin leading orcs off, and he leaves them to their probably fatal doom while he sneaks off to the boats. This is totally out of character for Frodo. In the book he left without knowing of the orc attack. He left because Boromir tried to take the Ring and because he didn't want to endanger his friends. He certainly would not have left if they were being attacked!

More than anything, Lord of the Rings is about human love and friendship. I did not feel this in the film at all (except possibly from Gandalf, and perhaps to a small extent, from Frodo).
 

Beorn

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Whether or not you like it, I didn't like what PJ did to the fans of the book.

Period

End of story.

You cannot reason with my opinion, as it is my own...
 

Elendil

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Originally posted by Mike B
Whether or not you like it, I didn't like what PJ did to the fans of the book.

Period

End of story.

You cannot reason with my opinion, as it is my own...
Are you addressing Markrob? Please be clear who you're talking to when you write an emotional response.:confused:
 

Foe-Hammer

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OMG!

This entire thread is a joke! You NPWG members need to get a life. Open the door, step outside. There are no dragons or wizards (except Bball), hobbits or elves, Orcs or dwarves. It is a book! Pure fantasy!
I'd bet a million dollars that tolkien would be more ashamed of you than the interpretation of his book.

He knew the difference between reality and fantasy.
 
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