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Numenorians and Adam&Eve

Melian

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Well, I was thinkimg recently that there's some familiar motive in the story of Numenor. And suddenly I found out that the legend resembled the story of Adam and Eve. Numenorians used to live in a heavenly garden. They were tempted and eventually became too proud. So proud that they claimed to be more powerful than the gods that created them. They broke the great ban and aroused the anger of the Almighty.
What would you say about that theory?
 

Gil-Galad

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On the whole I think that there's something common between A&E and Numenorians but I believe that Numenorians are just like the people who lived in Atlantida(?).Both they are very developed in everything and that cause their death.As I know Atlantida sink and the reason for this is that Atlantida's people get too proud jsut like Numenorians.But that's just an idea.
 

Goro Shimura

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In Tolkien's letters to his publisher (where he gives an overview of his "stuff") he writes in great length about how "the fall" is a major theme of his work.

The similarity between Genesis and the Akallabeth is intentional.
 

HLGStrider

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Also, according to the Humprey Carpenter Bio. Tolkien's worst childhood nightmare was of a wall of water devouring the country around his house... which would definately seem to be part of the story of Numenor.
 

Taran

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Yeah...did anyone know that Tolkien (who lives in the high heavens, may he rest in peace) was a Roman Catholic?

Alot of the Sil and some of LOTR is deeply theological, when you really look at it.

Like lembas - a representation of the Eucaharist?

The Valar - angels?

The elves - the Jewish people?

Morgoth - Satan?

Sauron - the Anti-Christ?

Eru/Illuvatar - God?

Feanor - Moses?

What do y'all think?
 
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Lantarion

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Good theories, Taran! But aren't Satan and the Antichrist the same dude?

Perhaps not of 'Adam and Eve' in particular, but Paradise and the Genesis surely. Aldarion and Erendis might have been Adam and Eve, if they had been around when Númenór was founded and if they had had a stable relationship. :)
 

Taran

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No, Satan was the angel (Valar) that rebeled against God before the world was made, and he became a devil. Alot of other angels rebelled with him.

The Anti-Christ is the man prophesied in the Bible who will wreak havoc for Christians towards the end of the world.

Satan is like the opposite of God (although not nearly as powerful) and the Anti-Christ is like the opposite of Jesus (although not nearly as powerful.)

Any other things you could apply?
 

Gil-Galad

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In fact Satan and The Antichrist aren't the same persons as Pontifex says,so I would say that Taran is absolutely right.
According to the Bible,Satan is an angel who has fallen down on earth.
But angels are not real,so Satan is not real too.He can be different things and persons ,just like Melkor at the beginning.Satan is unreal spirit ,in fact and Melkor,too.
It could be said that Antichrist and Satan are same persons ,but there're differences between them.According to the Theology,the Antichrist is like human being ,his purpose is to be closer to people and to oppose Jesus.He's just like Jesus ,his mission is to oppose him.It would be said that Antichrist is real,he has body etc....
Now let's think about Morgoth...he is a spirit in the beginning ,unreal person,just like Satan.
Sauron is a man in the beginnig,and he has to spread away Morgoth's will.So Sauron would be the Antichrist.
in genelral i think that Taran is right-
:) :Morgoth=Satan
Sauron=The Antichrist
 

Ciryaher

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I don't think Numenore itself can be compared to Eden since Mankind was born in the far east of Middle Earth. Read the Book of Lost Tales, Pt. 1 for interesting stories on the dawn and fate of Men.
 

Taran

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Well, like most allegory, it doesn't have to be EXACTLY patterned after true or religious facts. But the comparisons that do exist are obvious.
 

Eogthea

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Well, whether the similarities are intentional or not, most creation stories are similar so no one could really write of creation without the influence of these stories (eg, the Golden Age of Greek and Roman mythology, Eden, etc)
 

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