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Pronunciation Question for 'Aragorn'

JeffF.

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This is in reference to the appendix in ROTK on pronunciation. You notice that in the movie Isildur is correctly pronounced with the emphasis on the second syllable. The pronunciation of Isildur is specifically given in the appendix as an example for one of the pronunciation rules Prof. Tolkein writes about. It seems to me that the same rule would apply to 'Aragorn' and the accent placed on the second syllable, air-A-gorn or air-AH-gorn. could anyone review the passage in the appendix and comment?

I'm not sure on this so I don't intend to fall on my sword for any particular point of view. I'd genuinely like to hear what others think.

best regards,

Jeff
 

Cian

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Stress the antepenult syllable (the first syllable here) ~ the penult vowel (vowel in last syllable but one) in Aragorn is short, not a diphthong of course, and not followed by two (or more) consonants. Same as in LEgolas. Cheers

In Isildur the penult vowel is followed by a consonant cluster.
 

Grond

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Ahhhhhh Cian.... the master of the diphthong. I am repeatedly humbled by your unfathomable knowledge of the works. Your input is always welcome and accurate. Cheers!!:)
 
R

Retrovertigo

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But it wasn't coherent. I didn't understand any of it becuase I'm too lazy to get my dictionary.
So I'm none the wiser.
 

Cian

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LoL. Not bad for a madman though :)

Ok stress Aragorn on first syllable.

"Penult", or the second syllable from the end ~ Tolkien uses "last syllable but one" in RotK Appendix. The "antepenult" is the third syllable from the end. Thus, in a three syllable name like Aragorn, the antepenult is the first syllable. Onward ... but only maybe coherently.

In longer words (longer than two syllables):

1) If the penult contains a long vowel (marked like this: á, ó, í & etc), or a diphthong (see RotK Appendix E for the Elvish diphthongs) or a vowel followed by two or more consonants ~ it (ie the penult) is stressed.

2) If the penult contains a short vowel followed by only one (or no) consonant, the stress falls on the syllable before it, the third from the end (or antepenult)

Isildur falls in category 1 having a vowel in the penult followed by two consonants. Another example here is elentÁri because the vowel in the penult is long. If it were short the antepenult would be stressed, and in a 4 syllable word the antepenult is the 2nd syllable.

Aragorn falls in category 2.

Many folk usually wonder about stress in Legolas ~ same as Aragorn, also having the same amount of syllables to boot: stress LEgolas (not LegOlas).

:p
 
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ReadWryt

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Just a side note on how confusing English is, Penultimate means the second to the last...I'm not doubting the poster's use of "penult" as it could for all I know be completely accurate usage as applied and my knowlege of language has more to do with Fricatives, Nasals, Plosives, Glide and other terminology that are more involved with the mechanics of creating the sounds then the structures of words...(very important stuff to know when dong 3D cahracter animations because you want the teeth, tongue and lips to accurately arrange themselves to wrap around the words that the voice actor is speaking).
 

Cian

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Penult is a noun, penultimate is an adjective. I should really be using the terms
as such but sometimes use the shorter noun even where the adjective
should be used :rolleyes:
 
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Greymantle

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So what would the penult of the antepenultimate syllable be? :p I love that word... we use it a lot in musical navigation (i.e. determining measure number, etc.).
 

Lord Aragorn

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Reaches for pen and paper...

I think I'm learning more in here than I am in my English class. I think I'm going to take some notes.
 

Bill the Pony

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Can someone tell me how to pronounce Earendil? I always thought it was four syllables: e-a-ren-dil, but in the movie they pronounced it as three: ea-ren-dil.
 

Lord Aragorn

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I'd have to say Earendil has 3 syllables, thats just how I always thought it to be pronounced. I actually don't recall reading any text on the pronunciation of Earendil though, so it could be 4 syllables for all I know.
 

Grond

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In the Sil, it gives a very explicit example of ea. It states that ea is pronounced with two syllables and gives the example of Earendil. We have the author's definitive word on it. It is pronounced E-a-ren-dil... four syllables.:) Check it our for yourselves in the back of the Sil.
 

Bill the Pony

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Thanks Grond, that's what I thought. Now I am starting to doubt whether I heard it right in the movie, because I thought PJ HAD looked carefully into stuff like that. Did anyone else notice Galadriel pronouncing Earendil with three syllables, when she gives the phial to Frodo?
 

Grond

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Well Bill, if you say it real fast the e and a kind of slur into an "ee-ur" sound and could be confused for one syllable even though both are pronounced. I'd have to give her a pass on that one but will listen more closely when I get the DVD. I still hold that it should be pronounced ee-uh-rin-dul. I will await Cian's intervention as he will know for sure.
 

Cian

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Right, Eärendil has four syllables. The diaeresis shows that ea is properly dissyllabic (not a diphthong in any case).
 

Lantarion

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That's right, and the 'ä' is not pronounced as a nasal 'a' (like in 'apple'). E-är-en-dil, or Eär-en-dil. (Eär, 'sea'; - (n)dil, 'lover of, friend of'.) Right Cian? :D
 

Cian

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According to Helge (for Quenya short a) the vowel in Spanish padre "will do". Or for English speakers, by isolating the first part of the diphthong ai as in aisle. Yep, ëar "sea" (or ëare saith HF too) and etc Ponti :)
 

Walter

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Hmmm - do I get that right? The "ä" of the syllable "är" in E-är-en-dil is not a diphtong? Like in german "Bär" or in english Larry - the a a bit more stretched (can't think of a better comparison right now)?
 

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