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Ring of Doom in Turambar's Tale

Neithan

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The following quote is from a rejected part of Turambar's Tale in Christopher's comments:

But Linwe hearing that curse cause the gold to be cast into a deep pool of the river before his doors, and not for very long did any see it again save for the Ring of Doom [emended to: The Necklace of the Dwarves] ...

As far as I have read Christopher does not comment on this very startling appearance of the Ring of Doom in the Lost Tales. Do you think this is the first germ of the One Ring of Power in the Lost Tales? Can anybody throw some light on this?​
 

Illuin

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There is someone you may wish to seek concerning this matter; and is a fellow master of lore concerning HoME; who goes by the name of Inderjit S; and is yet young and fervent. He/she will fill you in. I used to be that way; but am older, and think more along the way of Treebeard. Much is forgotten :D.
 
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Confusticated

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Since Inderjit hasn't been around much recently, I'll try to answer. ;)

He was never keen on the older versions of the tales anyhow.:p


Here is one theory: for a second he may have intended that there be a Ring to serve a vague purpose he had in mind for stories not yet written, but then realised a ring would be too small to hold the silmaril or remembered that he intended a necklace. As for it being called the Ring of Doom, this would be a fitting name for any ring in which that silmaril was placed. The Nauglafring was something of a necklace of doom.

I checked the other very early material. The first Sil or 'Sketch' in HoME 4 (which was written several years after BOLT). Also skimmed likely sections of The Lay of the Children of Hurin (which was written around the same time as Lost Tales if I recall right) in HoME3 and didn't find any other mention of a Ring of Doom.

But certainly, it seems to have no possible relation to the One Ring because it was written decades before The Hobbit, let alone LOTR. A lot of times JRRT is believed to have struck something out and replaced it immediately with something else, and I would guess this is one of those instances.

Surprising that Christopher wouldn't have remarked on this 'Ring of Doom', also a name of the Valar's place of council (Mahanaxar - a funny looking word because it was adapted by elves from the relatively harsh sounding language of the Valar - something I found interesting).
 

Illuin

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Considering the far reaching depth and level of imagination given in Lord of the Rings; not to mention how unique it is; it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Tolkien had some major ideas brewing about magic rings back in that day. It just seems like too much of a coincidence that the term “Ring of Doom” would be used in these instances; almost as if they foreshadowed or alluded to the ultimate “Ring of Doom” that would eventually become the focus and pinnacle of Tolkien’s career. If I were in his shoes; and they were refusing to publish my beloved Silmarillion; I would make sure I got a good portion of that same story into the book they “were” going to publish. Neithan could be right; it could at least be a "germ".
 

Confusticated

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Is seems too unlikely to me, but maybe so. And especially if he was thinking about a Ring that wouldn't be connected to a silmaril. Its hard for me to imagine at age 29 that more than my own lifetime would pass between the two things (Lost Tales and LotR). But it is evident that as JRRT wrote the Lost Tales he did have an idea of the stories that were still unwritten. He would frequently go back and insert details or alter something into a tale to tie it in with a later story, but more often than not there was already some direction in the original draft of where it would go.

A good example of what you mention is the Arkenstone, which always reminded me of a silmaril. This large gem that is so beautiful it arguably causes people to take uncharacteristic actions. Or you could argue it was the Ring of Doom which caused Baggins to sneak the stone into his pocket, even though he didn't feel right about doing it.

I'm going to keep an eye out in the future for a mention of anything related to this topic. It might be worth checking certain letters and The Return of the Shadow.

A very good question Neithan.
 

Neithan

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Thanks a lot to both of you for taking the time to reply. Your insights proved most enlightening and I have to say that Nom's theory makes a lot of sense.
I am about to start another thread about how the Balrogs could whip Ungoliant's butt but the Valar could even catch up with her and Melkor. Your replies will be welcome.
 

octoburn

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the "Ring of Doom" is very likely a remnant of the old tale of Sigurd (which a new JRRT novel was recently published). in that legend, there is a horde of gold guarded by a dragon. sigurd slays the dragon and takes the gold. there is one particular ring in that horde (Andvari's Loom) that seemed to be more closely related to the curse that the dragon placed on the gold.

Turin is very clearly loosely based on Sigurd, and I think he realised the ring would have been one similarity too many between the two tales.
 

Neithan

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That was very interesting and it explains the ring away. Thanks a lot.
 

Bucky

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'Ring of Doom' - not that specific that it might not be something Tolkien wandered upon and liked himself....

Take 'Dark Lord' I tried to start a thread on that, but nobody was interersted and/or knew anything.

Since Tolkien used the term 'Dark Lord', George Lucas has borrowed it in 'Darth' (*Dark Lord of the Sith") and JK Rowling downright stole it for Lord Baloldfart.

But, did Tolkien invent or 'borrow' either term himself and if so, from where?
 

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