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Searching for Glorfindel

lilhobo

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do you realise that Glorfindel is actually Arwen, the cross-dressing little precious elven princess everyone has been crying foul about.

Heck this whole book is about crossdressers from Glorfindel/Arwen, to Eowyn

the next thing you know is that Galadriel is actually Treebeard :eek:

and elrond is actually the entwive all this time
 

PRH

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Harad,

you make a strong argument. well done.
 

lilhobo

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no fool, you made a strong arguments for giving away condoms to the orc folks..........imagine if the orc womenfolks had been given condoms, there wouldnt be swarms of orcs hanging from the Moria ceilings, and mating with infedils called humans....

and we would also have less harad-hais running around the forum mass debating everything :D
 

Bucky

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Perhaps this isn't the place for this, but.....

I don't get this bit that the Glorfindel who was in Gondolin has to be the same Glorfindel that goes to help Frodo & Company get to Rivendell.

Can't 2 Elves have the same name, or did I miss some law by Tolkien there?
Aren't there 2 Gildors? The one Frodo meets in The Woody End, & the one who helps Turin after he accidently slays Beleg?

As for Glorfindel having some mighty powers he was sent back from Mandos with, nonsense.
Gandalf plainly states that 'those who have dwelt in the Blessed Realm have great power over both the seen & the unseen".

GLorfindel doesn't display any traits that aren't common to all High Elves.
 

chrome_rocknave

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Originally posted by Harad
So finally, what is the fascination with the G-man. If JRRT didnt take him seriously, why should we?
If JRRT didn't take him seriously, he wouldn't have written him into his books.... I think Glorfindel was there to represent the fact that instead of two inexperienced Hobbits from the Shire, Elrond could have sent a mighty warrior High Elf instead. But he didn't because obviously Merry and Pippin had a part to play out before the end. Which goes back to the ever famous movie line "Even the smallest person can change the course of the future."
 

lilhobo

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well like duuuuuuuuurrrr,

the mistook merry and pippin for the ring bearers, and thats why sauron concentrated on the west instead of fortifying his on land

and thats why 2 hobbits was able to sneak into mordor unnoticed :D
 

chrome_rocknave

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Well I wouldn't say that the things you listed above were problems with Glorfindel's character. They were just part of his character...well except the afro thing :rolleyes:
 

markrob

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HMMMM

I'll bet you, and this is a guess and opinion, that if PJ had the benefit of seeing this outpouring of concern, whether good or bad, he would agree that some of his "INTERPRETATIONS" are too bold and could have been dealt with differently. But you know what they say about hindsight dont you? Its the movie we got and its pretty damn good. Guess we will have to live with it or without it. Without it means dont talk about ever again and definitely dont go see it or forthcoming ones.
 

lilhobo

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harad. that afro is melting your brain cells , take it off man :D
 
P

Phredo

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With respect to Elrond not sending Glorfindel on the quest:

Surely Elrond was weighing the odds of the quest succeeding, and of having to do a last ditch defense of Rivendell if Sauron regained the ring, a defense for which an afro-powered elven heavyweight like Glorfindel might be better suited than the secret penetration of Mordor.

Or maybe JRRT just didn't like Glordindel as much as we do...

Cheers,
Phredo
 

chrome_rocknave

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I think that the reason Elrond didn't send Glorfindel was in fact because he needed some strong Elves to defend Rivendell. Also, why do you think its a phoney story about Glorfindel being in those two stories? I mean couldn't the guy have been both?

Yes but war was brewing on the edge of Mirkwood and Rivendell could have been attacked before the ring was destroyed. Elrond wouldn't leave his home guarded with only weak Elves. He probably needed Glorfindel to help out at the homefront. Besides that, maybe Legolas was a better archer than Glorfindel...? Also, the Fellowship already had 9 companions and there wasn't really any room for Glorfindel---or maybe he just didn't want to go?

No, I don't think Glorfindel was afraid. However, this wasn't really any business of the Elves. This was man's problem so man had to deal with it. Maybe Glorfindel also felt this way and didn't think he should try to solve someone else's problem.
 

chrome_rocknave

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Let me rephrase

Rephrasing-----

Isildur didn't destroy the ring....obviously... So that placed the blame on "man". Therefore, it was man's job to destroy the ring. Yes, I'm sure that the Elves were deeply concerned over the quest of the ringbearer but it wasn't their part to destroy it.
 

TheJospeh

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We're in my territory now! :)

Harad, I can lay aside all your concerns.

It is stated directly in "the Lord of the Rings" that the Quest will never suceed by might. Even if there were a host of Glorfindels to send they could not single-handedly storm the gates of Mordor. Stealth was their only hope and bringing along an Elf Lord tends to attract attention. That's the reason Elrond gives.

Glorfindel of Gondolin is not necessarily Glorfindel of Rinvedell. Tolkien had considered the matter for quite awhile after publication--that's just the kind of attention to detail you get from this guy--and never came to a decision as to whether to two were the same or not. He didn't see a problem with it being possible it was just never decided.

Glorfindel was basically the fist of Rivendell. After Elrond faught in the Last Alliance of Elves and Man he rarely waged war directly himself. Glorfindel normally led the forces. Read the appendices and there is actually a story of Glorfindel confronting the Nazgul Lord. Just so you know, the Nazgul Lord runs home to daddy as fast as he ever can. :) Ever consider why Elrond didn't ride out against the Nine to help Frodo? Chances are quite possible that he couldn't. I paraphrase Boromir, "It is said the strength of Elrond is not found in arms but in wisdom."

Hope this clears up your problems but if not let me know.

Sincerely,
The Joseph
 

Kuduk

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Harad,

You may some excellent points, but may I offer this analysis regarding Elrond's decision not to send Glorfindel.

I think he in fact would have very much liked to have sent someone like Glorfindel, since he had other plans for Merry and Pippin. But he also believed that the success of the mission depended on keeping the number of the party as small as possible. Plus, Gandalf, Merry, and Pippin essentially twist his arm and Elrond relents, perhaps sensing like Gandalf did with Gollum's role that Merry and Pippin may have important roles to play by the end (though he knows not what exactly why or how).

Judging from your several previous postings, Harad, you seem to be one tough and shrewd customer, so I will offer several quotes from the LotR to backup my statements.

First, that Elrond felt it was very important to keep the numbers small:

In FOTR, Book 2, Ch.3, Elrond says,
The number must be few, since your hope is in speed and secrecy. Had I a host of Elves in armour of the Elder Days, it would avail little, save to arouse the power of Mordor.
That Elrond would have preferred someone like Glorfindel to go:

Same chapter, a few lines later he says,
There remain two more to be found. These I will consider. Of my household I may find some that it seems good to me to send.
In his ensuing exchange with Merry, Pippin, & Gandalf, Elrond essentially has his arm twisted:
(Gandalf says) '...Even if you chose for us an elf lord, such as Glorfindel, he could not storm the Dark Tower, nor open the road to the Fire by the power that is in him.'
'You speak gravely,' said Elrond, 'but I am in doubt. The Shire, I forbode, is not free now from peril; and these two I had thought to send back there as messengers.... In any case, I judge that the younger of these two, Peregrin Took, should remain. My heart is against his going.'
'Then, Master Elrond, you will have to lock me in prison, or send me home tied in a sack,' said Pippin. 'For otherwise, I shall follow the company.
'Let it be so then. You shall go,' said Elrond, and he sighed.
The fact that Elrond sighs suggests that he might have agreed with you, Harad, and would have chosen Glorfindel for the company if he could have things his own way. But it really isn't Elrond who makes the decision.

Anyway, I agree that while Glorfindel would have been nice to have in the movie, he really wasn't a top priority.
 

Elfarmari

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I could be completely wrong on this, and I don't have the passage in front ofme, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that if an elf died, they could, after a time 'come back' to life. I think this tied in with elves usually not marrying again if their spouse died, because if their spouse then came back to life, they would find eachother again. Does anyone else remember seeing this? I think it was in the Simarillion, but I'm not positive. IF this was true, then I guess Glorfindel wasn't all that special in coming back from the dead.
 

TheJospeh

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Actually I think I can clear something up for you.

When an Elf Lord walks about he is seen. An Elf draws attention but not nearly as much as an Elf Lord. Mordor and the Elves can sense each other when they are about. In the Marshes of the Dead had Glorfindel been there the Nazgul passing overhead would have known enemies were there. That is one example. The only reason the Quest suceeded was because Sauron didn't consider his enemies might try and destroy the ring.

True Glorfindel didn't get any "kills" but he did drive the Nazgul away twice. I would say being a significant factor in the winning of a war AND protecting the ring from capture are two important deeds.

Sincerely,
The Joseph
 

TheJospeh

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The bridge! The bridge! You've forgotten the bridge. He cleared the bridge for them. Without that the Ford wouldn't even have entered into it.

The Nazgul sensed Frodo with the Ring at a much closer distance than he detected Gildor and the other Elves approaching. Apparently it's not that way at all.

Sincerely,
The Joseph
 

TheJospeh

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I'm saying he sense Frodo with the ring far closer than he sensed Gildor. In other words--that I concede I should have used in the beginning--the Nazgul can sense an Elf farther away than the ring.

Yeah, maybe they could IF the brothers rode out together and managed to find Aragorn and the Hobbits on the other side of the bridge before the Nazgul found them. Glorfindel did it alone and furthermore chased the Nazgul far away. They fled before him a great distance. They didn't flee that far from Aragorn.

Sincerely,
The Joseph
 

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