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Silmarils vs Elven Rings

baraka

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I think that i read somewere that Celebrimor made his 3 rings in an effort to better the works of his grandfather Curufinwe. Is that true. Also did he made one ring for one Silmaril. Hmmmm.
 

elenya

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I don't know but the rings have some power right? And do the silmarils even do anything? I'm really guessing here but I wouldn't think so.
 

baraka

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The silmarils have the light of the trees in them. The elves that saw the light I suppose have greater strenght and characteristics than other elves. Or the elves were better because they lived with the Valar?
 

Snaga

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His father was Curufinwe, his grandfather was Feanor. Feanor made the Silmarils.

I think the Rings and the Silmarils are very different creations. I don't think Celebrimbor would have thought he could rival the Sils.
 

Eonwe

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As far as silmarils vs. elven rings, silmarils had the fate of arda "earth, air, fire" locked within them, and they were lost such (Earendil in Air, Maeglin in Earth, Maglor in Water) but the elven rings were water, air, fire... I don't see any connection...
 

Bucky

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The connection is that Feanor had a great gift or skill in making this type of 'magic stuff'.
He most likely made the Palantiri according to The Sil.
Most of this skill was passed to his son, the father of Celebrimbor.
I think it would be safe to assume he passed the gift to his son....

Now, to correct a few errors:

>>>His father was Curufinwe, his grandfather was Feanor. Feanor made the
Silmarils.

No. His father was Curufin.
His grandfather was Curufinwe aka Feanor.

>>>they were lost such (Earendil in Air, Maeglin in
Earth, Maglor in Water)

Not Maeglin, he sold out Gondolin.
Maedhros, eldest son of Feanor, chucked his Silmaril into a chasm of fire along with himself.


BTW, I like the connection Eonwe made about Air, Water & Fire as the final resting place of the Silmarils & the nature of the Three Rings.
Interesting coincidence, if there is no intended corrallation.
 
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Eonwe

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HAHA yeah duh Maeglin (he was the dark elf ewwww) DUH!
 

BluestEye

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You forget that Celebrimbor didn't make the Rings for himself, and even the idea of creating them wasn't his. It was Sauron that asked him to make him the rings. Celebrimbor was just following Sauron's wish.

BluestEye
 

Hirila

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I don`t know if it is true that Sauron bid Celebrimbor make the rings.

All I know is that Sauron never lay hands on them and had nothing to do with their making. That is why he couldn`t turn them into evil and couldn`t find them without his own One Ring.

This Ring alone had power over the three. As it had even more on the seven and the nine because Sauron somehow was involved in their making.
 

BluestEye

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The One Ring had power over the other rings because Sauron had part in making these rings. He knew what he wanted but hadn't the skill of the Eldar so he asked Celebrimbor to make him the rings. The One Ring was made by Sauron himself to control the other rings.

BluestEye
 

Bucky

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I just read the passage in 'Of the Rings of Power and the Third age', & nowhere does it say Sauron asked or 'bid' Celebrimbor or the Elves of Hollin to make the Rings of Power.

He certainly helped, & demanded they be given up to him as they could not have been made without his help, but nowhere is any indication given that it was even his idea to make the Rings.
 

BluestEye

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You are right, Bucky. I looked it over and it certainly doesn't say that this was Sauron's idea, but it is said that he "guided their labours". Here's the full paragraph:

In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves and to bring them under his vigilance."
Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age, THe Silmarillion

I always thought that Sauron ordered the Elves to make for him the Rings and because he was a friend of them (as they thought at first) they agreed. So I take my words back, Sorry :)

I wonder why I thought like this. Maybe I read it somewhere else, but it must be written in the chapter about the Rings of Power in the Sil so I guess what you say is true.

Love,
BluestEye
 

Lantarion

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Maeglin wasn't the Dark Elf, Eonwe, his father Eöl was. And although Maeglin was Eöl's son he didn't inherit the title of Dark Elf.

I see the obvious connection between Vilya, Narya and Nenya and the eventual fate of the Silmarilli, and I think it is a wonderful observation. But I don't think Celebrimbor made the Rings of Power just to match his grandpa. "They took thought", it says in the Sil. Perhaps they were bored, and wanted to find out more potent and marvelous ways of bringing and creating beauty into the world. The Silmarils were much more important than the Rings, because "in them was tied the fate of Arda", or something like that. The Rings were just powerful amulets, which an evil Maia exploited to gain more power.
 

Eonwe

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OK OK! Stop correcting me! The only thing I liked about Eol and Maeglin was Tour slaying one of them and his body pitching against the rocks as he fell! HAHA! :)

But there is a difference between the Silmarils Air, Earth, Water vs. the Elven Rings Air, Water, Fire anyway. Unless Gandalf had the Ring of Earth (hmm...) :)
 

Snaga

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Originally posted by Pontifex
Maeglin wasn't the Dark Elf, Eonwe, his father Eöl was. And although Maeglin was Eöl's son he didn't inherit the title of Dark Elf.
Just curious but why not? Isn't a dark elf just one that never saw the Light of the Trees? So Maeglin would be one too? Or am I being stupid? I often get stupid when I've been on-line too long!:):rolleyes: :confused:
 

Hirila

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Those who never saw the light of the trees were called the Moriquendi and all elves save the Noldor that came back from Valinor and Thingol belonged to them. But Eol was called "the Dark Elf" because he lived in Nan Elmoth, were the trees let no light through and he didn`t like the sunlight.
 

Bucky

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Actually, one of Feanor's angrier sons (I guess that would include any of them but the M&M's) refers to Thingol as a 'Dark Elf', although he had seen the light of the Two Trees. "Let them (the Sons of Finarfin) not run hither to this Dark Elf with their tales" when the truth of the Noldor's depature from Valinor is made known (paraphrase).....

>>>But there is a difference between the Silmarils Air, Earth, Water vs. the
Elven Rings Air, Water, Fire anyway. Unless Gandalf had the Ring of Earth
(hmm...)

Since correcting Eonwe is in vogue, I'll just mention this:

The Silmaril that ended up in the earth went into a chasm of FIRE.
So, there could well be a connection.
 

Eonwe

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I knew someone was going to say that :)

I think Mandos says though the fates of Arda, Earth, Air, Water are bound to the Silmarils. He didn't say fire did he?
 
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