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Smaug and Bilbo and the One Ring

Hama

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Okay, this has been puzzling me as of late.
If Smaug had 'fried' Bilbo during one of their conversations, while Bilbo had in his possession the ring, is it not possible that that would have led to the immediate destruction of the ring, and as a result, Sauron. So in fact, Bilbo could have sacrificed himself for all of the good peoples of ME. End of story. Perhaps, Gandalf could have used Smaug, had he had any suspicions about the ring being the One, to destroy it once and for all.
 

Úlairi

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That's a great point Hama! If that did happen, no Sauron! I completely agree with you! But I think Sauron would have used Smaug for his purposes instead of Gandalf who could offer Smaug nothing where as Sauron could offer him many things. That is why Gandlf wanted the dragon slain. This is a great thread, why didn't I think of it?!
 

Merry

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Two points;

1) Bilbo did not know that the ring was the One Ring so he would never have contemplated sacrificing himself

2) Didn't Gandalf say that not even Dragon fire could destroy the ring, only the fires of mount doom was hot enough? I think it was Gandalf?? :)

That is what I love about Tolkiens world, so many paths cross each other that could have influenced the rest of the tale had it been different.

Good question!
 

Greenwood

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Gandalf in The Shadow of the Past in FOTR:

"It has been said that dragon-fire could melt and consume the Rings of Power, but there is not now any dragon left on earth in which the old fire is hot enough; nor was there ever any dragon, not even Ancalagon the Black, who could have harmed the One Ring, the Ruling Ring, for that was made by Sauron himself."

So, Smaug would have made Bilbo into a piece of burned hobbit toast, but the Ring would have been unharmed.
 

Merry

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Thanks for the quote Greenwood, I knew it said something like that!!
 

Greenwood

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Originally posted by Merry
Thanks for the quote Greenwood, I knew it said something like that!!
Happy to oblige. Your memory was dead on. All I did was type the quote.
 

ssgrif

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Not one to reiterate what someone else has already pointed out, but ok then I will...

Yes you're right Merry, the only way to destroy the ring is to throw it back into the fires of mount Doom whence it came, so Elrond stated. And also Gandalf did state like Merry mentioned before, that not even dragon fire could destroy the ring.

If smaugs fire could have destroyed the ring, and that Bilbo was in fact a suicidal lemming-hobbit hibrid, it would have been such a short story....

:) :) :)
 
M

Mormegil

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Ok, so we've decided that Smaug couldn't have destroyed the ring.

If Smaug had fried Bilbo during one of their conversations what would have happened next??

The Ring would have been mixed in with Smaug's bed of Gold and Jewels.
Would Smaug have realised what it was?
If Smaug had still been killed, would the Dwarves have realised what it was?
Would Gollum have gone to the Lonely Mountain to try and get it back?
Would Sauron have found out where the Ring was?
 

Merry

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Difficult question, the ring would have used either Smaug or the dwarves to get home to it's master.

I doubt the Dwarves would have worn the ring because it didn't have a huge gem in it so they would have tried to pass it on to a lesser person, (IM0).

Could Smaug actually wear it?? Hmmmm.....
 

Bill the Pony

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I've been wondering for a while what 'wearing' the Ring actually means. If Smaug instead of frying Bilbo, had eaten him, that would have meant that the Ring was inside his belly (at least for a while). Is that the same as wearing the ring? In other words, would Smaug be invisible until it came out at the other end? (actually, do dragons belong to the mortals that go invisible when 'wearing' the ring?)
 

ssgrif

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That is a good point Bill, but just a little disturbing.

I would guess that if the ring did indeed react to Smaug, then being inside his belly as you put it Bill, I would expect it to react the same as if by touch, but not actually wielding it. Smaug wouldnt become invisible, but just that Sauron would be aware of its presence.

Gandalf went to touch the ring in the film (sorry, I dont like refering too much to the film but I cant remember if its also in the book) and we see the lidless eye flash up. If this is also in the book (memory fails me and I dont have a copy nearby) then Smaug touching it would possibly produce the same result?
 

Hanne

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I thougt that Gandalf said to Frodo that he was meant to have the Ring ,and Bilbo too.So it was impossible that Smaug or the Dwarves could have got it.But maybe if Bilbo had been killed the Dwarves would have found it and give it to Frodo as a memory or something???Ok,this is stupid now I'm making other story-ends!!!
 

Camille

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Gandalf went to touch the ring in the film (sorry, I dont like refering too much to the film but I cant remember if its also in the book) and we see the lidless eye flash up. If this is also in the book (memory fails me and I dont have a copy nearby) then Smaug touching it would possibly produce the same result?
Yes that was in the movie, in the book Gandalf did touched the ring and frodo did not see any eye vision!!
But Smaug wearing the ring.... mm good point, but he was never tempted by it didnt he?
 

Gamil Zirak

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If Smaug did swallow the ring, would his body be able to digest it or would it just "pass through"? Let's compare a dragon to a cow (don't ask my why you would just agree that you could compare the two for this purpose). A cow has seven stomachs (don't quote me on the exact number, but it is close) because it needs to be able to digest grass. Grass is very hard to break down with stomach acids. Would Smaug have that many stomachs or only have one like a regular meat eater? Would stomach acid be strong enough to disintegrate the ring? If a dragon can breathe fire, it's got to have something strong in its belly. This is very perplexing. I'm just glad it didn't happen that way. I hope this makes some sort of sense and doesn'y seem like I was rambling on.
 

LadyGaladriel

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Perfect sense ;)

smaug = Cow
Can see certain similarities!

I think it would possible stay there and when he became well a skelton Nazgul would get him. I for one wouldn't want to touch it!

Nazgul 1 to Nazgul 2 = Poke it with a stick!
 

Bucky

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>>>>I've been wondering for a while what 'wearing' the Ring actually means. If Smaug instead of frying Bilbo, had eaten him, that would have meant that the Ring was inside his belly (at least for a while)

I bet Sauron would've sent the Nazgul to check through Smaug's doody.
Just think of that scene in Jurassic Park......
Talk about looking for a needle in a haystack.


Smaug wouldn't have eaten Bilbo because he couldn't see him.
A blast of fire in the general direction of Bilbo's voice would work though.

And, if Dragon fire couldn't destroy the One Ring, either could Smaug's acid reflux....
And, Gandalf says "One way", going to Mt Doom.
 

Úlairi

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I believe that the One Ring would have endured. Sauron did not make just a mere trifle, he made the most powerful object ever to be on the earth, a little burp or a hiccup from a dragon couldn't destroy it.
 

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