🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

Social Debate: Who is Hotter? Fingon or Finduilas?

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
Greetings, and welcome everyone to this fine debating arena, where a great debating spectacle is about to take place.
The girl who is arguably the most fanatical Ñoldor fan in the forum, Nóm, is about to take those two young rascals who are both obssesed with Keira Knightley, Inderjit S and Beleg.!!! :D

Now the topic shall be:

Who is Hotter? Fingon or Finduilas?

And I believe that Nom shall be debating that Fingon is hotter...(I think ;) ), and the guys shall be debating that Finduilas is hotter.


There shall be no time limit, and whenever the debate grinds to a halt, I shall assemble the greatest panel of judges ever seen in this fora! :D
Game on! :)
 

Inderjit S

Bootylicious
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
2,109
Reaction score
4
Location
Wolverhampton, United Kingdom
Fingon had braided hair. What more could you want?

But then again Finduilas was HOT. No wait Keira Knightley is hot, we never get a good description of Finduilas. For all we know she could have looked like that old evil woman from Titanic. I'd much rather undo Fingon's golden braid's, thank you. ;)
 

Confusticated

Registered User
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Messages
4,439
Reaction score
5
Location
USA
Thanks Aule, and what a scholarly, useful,and potentially educational topic we have here. ;)


Inder! Which side will you be debating for? And I hope Beleg takes this a little more seriously than you are. :p

Well, lets set one important criteria for the debate first. Which elf is more hot, but according to who?

I do not think this 'who' should be us debators, as that could scarcely be debated without falling into something that'd get Inder and I banned. :p

I think 'who' should try to be people in general, I know this is not a clear cut thing though... people have their own tastes.

I think most of this will be based on personalities and status. This must be a factor in hottness. Plus if we do not toss this into the mix we have little to go on as Fingon and Finduilas were likely both very attractive looking, and we don't have pictures of them anyhow. ;)Though little is known about Finduilas's looks other than hair color, and about Fingon we know what his hair was like and know that since his brothers Turgon and Argon were the tallest of the Noldor... good bet Fingon was pretty darn tall as well.

So... do you disagree with the terms of this debate or have anything you'd like to add?


I am saying we should evaluate each elf in every area possable, rather than for example, a bunch of drooling.I should tell why women in general (not necessarily me) should find Fingon more attractive than men in general are likely to find Finduilas. We can't just prove our side by only describing a hot Fingon stepping down from his horse and looking out over the battlefield, or crying 'Behold people of the Eldalie and fathers of Men, the night is passing!' or Finduilas brushing her hair in the caves where she lived.

... but the night was not passing :(
 

Confusticated

Registered User
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Messages
4,439
Reaction score
5
Location
USA
Fingon, Findekano, the hair commander... THE HOT!

Originally posted by Ancalagon
LOL:D
Well it is a hot topic with Inder and I. Needs settling! You're welcome to join us :p hehehe!

Fingon was valiant, and selfless and committed one of the single greatest deeds we hear about from the First Age. He went alone against all hope up to Thangorodrim to rescue his cousin who had been a good friend of his in the past, and he also did this to heal the relations between Feanor and Fingolfin's hosts. And when he despaired, what did he do? Lay down in some dark corner hidden from enemies and weep? leave in shame? or panic and start yelling 'Maedhros!'? no he did not. To defy Morgoth he took out his harp and sang! Then he rescued Maedhros with help of an Eagle. He was also on great terms with men,welcoming them, he loved Hador and gave him the rule of Dor-lomin. In addition to the great deeds of Fingon, there was nothing bad about him, nay he never did an ill thing that we know of!

So here you have an all around good guy who values friendship and unity to the point he'd go into a hopeless situation where he was almost sure to get himself killed, and so bold and fiery that in the heart of Morgoth's darkness he played music and sang. Now that is very attractive aka HOT ;).

Now it's well known that a lot woman are attracted to men in high places and Fingon was not just royalty, but for a time he was the High King of The Noldor in Middle-earth.

In addition to this he was unwed. Unwed high king of the Noldor who carries around a harp and sings, a mighty and valiant warrior with great values. What woman doesn't find attractive a man who is proud and honourable,can be so bold and determined, and is as strong as they come but also gentle, a musician and singer too, an artist!

And one may say 'well the Noldor were artists all, and all the princes had courage and skill and pride'... but! Not all of them were as hot as Fingon, nay none of them were! First off... his brother Turgon can not have been as apealing since he already had a love and though she died, these are elves and their unions last until the ending of the world... so he was taken! Same with Fingolfin whose wife remained in Aman, same with Angrod, same with Aegnor and Finrod. So wow... we have the great sons of Feanor left to compare Fingon to. C&C - out the door with them... Curufin was married and Celegorm... well he was Celegorm. A cowardly slime... a disgrace to the Noldor! Maedhros's mother name (Maitimo, meaning 'well-formed one') may mean that he was 'hot' but in truth his best shot with the ladies, and this also proves his mother name was a prophectic one!... was that missing hand of his - he could have passed himself off as Beren! ... But back to being serious at 5 second intervals - all the sons of Feanor were driven by an oath that doomed them. What they valued first above all else was to keep that oath. Compare this with the values of Fingon. ha! Fingon stands above them all ( [/endinterval] except his super tall brother Turgon who he was 2 inches shorter than)!

Finduilas on the other hand... Well she had a love, Gwindor, who was made a thrall in Angband and one would think that his safe return would have been the greatest joy in the world to her, and if anything she would love him even more after what he had come through and out of the unexpected joy at his return but nay, not little young Finduilas, her heart turned to Turin an over-proud man. Furthermore when Gwindor told Finduilas who the Mormegil was, she ran off and spread the word around! Well I'll end with Finduilas here as I do not know what approach you guys will take in showing how hot she was.




... 'bold and fiery of heart', and loath to abandon any task to which he had put his hands.
 

Beleg

Fading
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1
First of all I take that the meaning of the word hot discussed here is

Sexually Attractive.

Fingon was valiant, and selfless and committed one of the single greatest deeds we hear about from the First Age.
This may prove him to be hot-tempered but not hot.


He went alone against all hope up to Thangorodrim to rescue his cousin who had been a good friend of his in the past, and he also did this to heal the relations between Feanor and Fingolfin's hosts.
Again he might have the hots for his cousin but this doesn't even make him hot!

And when he despaired, what did he do? Lay down in some dark corner hidden from enemies and weep? leave in shame? or panic and start yelling 'Maedhros!'? no he did not. To defy Morgoth he took out his harp and sang! Then he rescued Maedhros with help of an Eagle.
Well technically the eagle rescued Meadhros. This only shows that he was not emotional and that he had some brains and had a good heart. Lol, he sang to defy Morgoth? That's hardly some exclusive act. That doesn't make him hot.


He was also on great terms with men,welcoming them, he loved Hador and gave him the rule of Dor-lomin.
He always seems to be in love with 'men'. So does this make him hot?
:eek:


In addition to the great deeds of Fingon, there was nothing bad about him, nay he never did an ill thing that we know of!
again how does this make him hot?

So here you have an all around good guy who values friendship and unity to the point he'd go into a hopeless situation where he was almost sure to get himself killed, and so bold and fiery that in the heart of Morgoth's darkness he played music and sang. Now that is very attractive aka HOT
Now here you have a simple, straight not very imaginative fellow [Whose best way to 'defy' Morgoth is to sing!] who likes men and is stupidly bold and doesn't even like any woman, doesn't have any love interest, probably is too shy!
Now that's the exact opposite of a examplary hot personality.
He is probably the last person in Middle-earth towards whom I'll feel any kind of sexual attraction.
:rolleyes:

Now it's well known that a lot woman are attracted to men in high places and Fingon was not just royalty, but for a time he was the High King of The Noldor in Middle-earth.
Precisely! And yet we are told of not even a single Woman! who was attracted to him!! Strange, isn't it? ;) Now Finduilas on the other hand had two very prestigious lovers and probably a lot of courters..


In addition to this he was unwed. Unwed high king of the Noldor who carries around a harp and sings, a mighty and valiant warrior with great values. What woman doesn't find attractive a man who is proud and honourable,can be so bold and determined, and is as strong as they come but also gentle, a musician and singer too, an artist!
A king carrying a harp? Seems a bit unbalanced to me...With his set of values he wouldn't probably even dare to touch his wife...
Just because he created some kind of weird music that was heard by Meadhros doesn't make him an artist! An artist is weird, creative, not decisive, often has contradictory ideas and your boy Fingon was the exact opposite of all these things.
He was a bit too much of a Mr. Perfect to be hot!

And one may say 'well the Noldor were artists all, and all the princes had courage and skill and pride'
One may not say that! Only Maglor was a good enough singer to rival any Sinda.

Not all of them were as hot as Fingon, nay none of them were!
That's what you believe!!!! Have you any proof that he was hot? Do you have a description of him which merits him as hot? No!


So Turgon cannot be as hot as him because he was married? Seems he was more hot because someone actually felt him good enough to marry him!

Now Finrod can be hot because he had a sweetheart in Aman and was loyal to her and walks along with her!
Now Feanor is an all hot guy!


was that missing hand of his - he could have passed himself off as Beren!
Last time I checked Beren was a bit shorted, stockier and didn't have red hairs!

Meadhros is an ubberly hot person whatever you say, because he has a well made body!!!!
The fact is that Fingon was a plain straight fellow with no creativity and no love for unsual. He was obviosuly not popular among women! He seems like overly chilvarous!
Now Finduilas is an exact opposite!
Finduilas had lovers; two real, strong, muscular great lovers!
Now Finduilas had creativity. After Mr. Gwindor was depleted, she choose Turin, the most beautiful man of that age! And he loved her! Now if a person like Turin, [Who could have choosen any hot Doriath or Nargothrond babe] chooses Finduilas as his love and constitutes a friendship with her then she has to be hot!!! Which she is!!! She was a honey blonde! which leaves no doubt in my mind that Finduilas was hot!
 

Inderjit S

Bootylicious
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
2,109
Reaction score
4
Location
Wolverhampton, United Kingdom
Sauron, lembas and videotapes.

Well, in the case of Fingon. He in the course of the writing of the Silmarillion, had three children. Gil-galad (Grey Annals) and two which were given in the Shibboleth of Feanor from some earlier genealogical tables, whose names were Finbor and Erien. These ideas were later dropped in favour of the statement that Fingon had no 'wife or child'. Seems Tolkien may or may not have had a reason for this. He was best friends with Maedhros. The change in genealogies coincides with the story of the 'Ellesar' being given from Maedhros the Fingon, and Maedhros was given this stone by his father Feanor. 'Laws and Customs of the Eldar' states that the father bride and the mother of the groom would give a gift either way. (Galadriel took Celebrian's place when she gave Aragorn the Ellesar in Lothlorien.) Maedhros was said to be of 'beautiful bodily form' and very handsome…strange the two hot Elves never got married. Now most Elves married, it was a natural occurrence in their lives. But don't you find it odd that these two didn't? Not that im suggesting anything. ;) ;) ;) ;) (Now four winking smilies-THAT could be suggesting something.)

Beleg-He's not 'in love' with men. He loves some Men, and kin. What is wrong with that?

(And I will not demean myself by writing a paragraph on possible homosexual attitudes of some Elves. The good professor would be rolling in his grave!

And you say Fingon wasn't too shy..well those of you who have read 'HoME 14:Elven Erotica: Do it Fingon style' can never attest to that statement. (The Validity of such a book existing is debatable, but I was told about it by a v. reliable source. (Some kind of decrepit alcoholic badger who obviously was in the need of a shower or three.)

But Finduilas…my my she had almost as many lovers as Gil-Galad's mom. She must have been v. beautiful. Unless the talent in Nargothrond wasn't really up to scratch that is.
 
Last edited:

Confusticated

Registered User
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Messages
4,439
Reaction score
5
Location
USA
Sorry Beleg but elves are artists, that is what they are!

About Fingon's friendship with men, it just demonstrates goodness in his personality, that the king of the most skilled and mighty people wouldn't think twice about friendshiip with people who were of course at the time of the beginning of the friendship very unskilled and 'lesser' that the Noldor, though they grew in wisdom and skill as time went on.He could have easily dismissed them as being of little worth, as Caranthir and Thingol liked to do, or have just used them only as soldiers, but nay not Fingon he really cared for them.


Now I never said Fingon was not shy, I just said he was bold as it obvious by his actions and this is also the word Tolkien uses to describe him. Rescuing Maedhros, his role in Nirnaeth, his roll in the rebellion... all shows he was bold couragious. Beleg, you credit only (or mostly?) the Eagle with the rescue of Maedhros. This makes no sense whatsoever. It was the prayer of Fingon which Manwe answered by providing the eagle. It was Fingon who unhooked Maedhros from his hand and therefore from the cliff! Fingon won a lot of praise for this deed, as was deserved.

Well Inder the only serious basis in your arguement is that Finduilas is more apealing because she loved more than one person! I say rather than Fingon being single and available High King of the Noldor in Middle-earth makes him more attractive as a male than the fickle flings of Finduilas makes her attractive.

Beleg, all I can really do is disgree with you if you think those traits of Fingon are not highly attractive. As for him not being artist? Nay this is not true, all the elves were artists... that is what elves do... art. And they are darn good at it! I suppose if you disgree with that (and I cant imagine you will?) I can toss in some quotes, and go on a ramble about elves.

You say it is strange that we have no mention of anyone being attracted to Fingon! Well, we know Gwindor loves Finduilas, but where else do we here of someone being attracted to her? And I'll add that I just can't see Tolkien telling us about attraction to Fingon that some ladies might have had. He may tell us someone loved Fingon but he did not do so. It may be that no one did love Fingon, but on the other hand it may be that he was in the wildest dreams of all the ladies of Dor-lomin, for all we know. Elven King... yeah I think it's fair to assume he was attractive to women, Tolkien does not write about good women lusting after elven kings.

So far it comes down to me saying that Fingon's traits make him such that he is someone a lot of women would like very much, whereas you use Gwindor's love of Finduilas to demonstrate that she must have been hot.

Hmm... I don't think there is much left to say but maybe I am wrong, I will await your answer and hopefully we can wrap this up and the judges can make the call.

Unless you have something you'd like me to reply to this can be my closing post and you guys can close now?
 

Inderjit S

Bootylicious
Joined
Feb 12, 2003
Messages
2,109
Reaction score
4
Location
Wolverhampton, United Kingdom
Noldor in Middle-earth makes him more attractive as a male than the fickle flings of Finduilas makes her attractive.
Fickle flings? Er..are you referring to her rejecting Gwindor after he came back old and decripid and choosing the hot, young Turin instead? Or her thinking that Turin would never love her because of a conversation with the jealous Gwindor? Thats not fi..no wait...woodja woodja woo:( (This makes me wonder whose side I am on.

Well, we know Gwindor loves Finduilas, but where else do we here of someone being attracted to
Tuirn was attracted to her. I have a faint feeling that Drauglin was also a bit of a pervy Elf-lady fancier...and Finduilas did have a reputation. Also the infamous quote from the HoME 11; Quendi and Eldar;

For Elfwine, the loremasters sayeth that Finduilas was indeed the hottest incarnate upon Middle-Earth.....
 

Confusticated

Registered User
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Messages
4,439
Reaction score
5
Location
USA
Looks like we need to have this thing closed, so I guess umm... any judges reading this now... it is not over until Beleg or Inder post again.

hmm Closer... lets see... I said all that good stuff about Fingon and while none of it was disputed by Inder and Beleg, Beleg challenged it in saying those things I said about Fingon do not make him hot. I see no reason to argue further on this.

This is obviously not a serious debate but the resorting to claims of homosexuality by Inder and Beleg are indicative they had nothing better to say against Fingon being attractive. Those claims have no grain of truth, and Beleg's arguement that Fingon was 'in love' with the men of Dor-lomin is pathetic. Inder himself gives a good case for Fingon.

My case against Finduilas is mostly the fact that she ceased to love Gwindor... which is pretty rotten of her. As was her leeking out the tuth about Turin's identity which Gwindor shared with her for her own good, and not out of jealousy! Not only did this betray Gwindor who loved her but Turin whom she supposedly loved. She's trouble and a helpless maiden who being of the house of Finarfin, descendant of Angrod, need not have been. She was young and too girlish... not yet a 'woman' really. The only apeal this can have is for some guy who likes a helpless girl.

Fingon on the other hand was bold and fiery, proud and honourable, High King of The Noldor, a true friend... and he had long dark hair with golden braids that Inder would rather undo :).

I say again: Fingon was more hot than Finduilas!
 

Beleg

Fading
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1
Closing Statement

First of all, I would like to say that upon know Inder and I were a tad firvolous, an attitude caused due to the lightness of the topic.
Yet, the period of laughter has to end and one needs to get serious.
I would try to put up a brief and concise closing statement.

We say that Finduilas was more hotter.

Dictionary.com puts up the meaning of 'Hot' as: Sexually excited or exciting.

Now we come to the features that make one sexually inticing or exciting.
They differ from person to person but the usually universally accepted law is that one's physical features/beauty, One's body, One's habbit's, One's manner's and One's speech makes one hot.

Going bye this relatively unoffical [Although the best we have got so far] defination I am going to say Finduilas is more hot.

Reasons: Let's take Physical features:


We are told about Finduilas's beauty,

Finduilas daughter of Orodreth the King knew him and welcomed him, for she had loved him before the Nirnaeth, and so greatly did Gwindor love her beauty that he named her Faelivrin, which is the gleam of the sun on the pools of Ivrin.
For here we can formulate that Finduilas had a creamy, milky skin possessing a raidance of her own; shining.
A creamy, silky skin is very sexy. And radiant, shining skin is a perfect example of asthetic beauty.

This is further certified by the fact that two of the most eligible menfolk of First age loved her,

We all know about Turin's beauty, he is said to be the most beautiful man of first age; Elf maids lusted after him; he was bread in the royal airs of Doriath where dwelt Melian, beauty within beauties, so beauty and attraction of Women would have been to him a common thing.
So there must have been some spectecular hotness and beauty in Finduilas which made Turin fall in love with her head over heels.


The Body: Something which catches a man's attraction along with the face is the curves and setting of the body. Now a delicate skin, and a creamy one generally go with a hot, curved and sexy body.

We are told that 'and Túrin began to take pleasure in the sight of her and in her company' meaning that Turin saw something in her body along with her face.

One's habbits: We are told that Turin often yearned for her friendship and companionship.

We are also told that a person like Turin, who kept to himself and wasn't the easiest of person to make friends with yearned for her council,

. And he cried upon Finduilas to bring him counsel; for he knew not whether he would do now more ill to go to Doriath to seek his kin, or to forsake them for ever and seek death in battle.
That would obviously mean that Finduilas was wise, open hearted, was a good friend and gave wise councils or else Turin wouldn't have asked for her council. It also shows that they developed a kind of friendship with eachother, and Turin didn't have a lot of friends. So someone who truly understood Turin and to whom Turin went for council in case of troubles must be a wise and kindhearted person, distinguishing her from others and consequently making her hot.

Turin began to take 'Pleasure in her company' meaning that she had a nice friendly sort of way around her making her distinct from others and hot.


She also had the 'Keen eyes of the eldar' which shows the keenness of her mind.

Voice: Now comes her voice. Circumstantial evidence provided enables us to speculate that Finduilas possessed a distinguishble voice.

Among them was Finduilas, and she cried out to Túrin as she went; but not until her cries and the wailing of the captives was lost upon the northward road did Claiming release Túrin, and he might not stop his ears against that voice that haunted him after
Now maybe her cry was seperate due to its angst, but still if it preoccupied Turin's mind it must have something special about it, or else he would have forgotten it. It is also possible that he treasured it as a sample of her voice which he, a hot man found sexy.
We all know that sexy drawls and accents make one hot and attract guys and girls, so her voice might have been a possible factor in attracting Gwindor and Turin towards her.



Finduilas the daughter of Orodreth was golden-haired after the manner of the house of Finarfin, and Túrin began to take pleasure in the sight of her and in her company[/B


She is golden haired, so she is honey blonde and honey blondes tend to be sexy.

One's manners: Now Finduilas has nice manners, she never blames anyone even if that someone has made a mistake, she defends her love and her lover and don't desert them.

Your eyes are dimmed, Gwindor," she said. "You do not see or understand what is here come to pass. Must I now be put to double shame to reveal the truth to you? For I love you, Gwindor, and I am ashamed that I love you not more, but have taken a love even greater, from which I cannot escape. I did not seek it, and long I put it aside. But I have pity for your hurts, have pity on mine. Túrin loves me not; nor will."
"You say this," said Gwindor, "to take the blame from him whom you love. Why does he seek you out, and sit long with you, and come ever more glad away?"
"Because he also needs solace," said Finduilas, "and is bereaved of his kin. You both have your needs. But what of Finduilas? Now is it not enough that I must confess myself to you unloved, but that you should say that I speak so to deceive?"
"Nay, a woman is not easily deceived in such a case," said Gwindor. "Nor will you find many who will deny that they are loved, if that is true."
"If any of us three be faithless, it is I: but not in will. But what of your doom and rumours of Angband? What of death and destruction? The Adanedhel is mighty in the tale of the World, and his stature shall reach yet to Morgoth in some far day to come."
"He is proud," said Gwindor.
"But also he is merciful," said Finduilas. "He is not yet awake, but still pity can ever pierce his heart, and he will never deny it. Pity maybe shall be ever the only entry. But he does not pity me. He holds me in awe, as were I both his mother and a queen!"
Standing up for her lover, and yet not accusing her former lover who is being somewhat jealous and cynical are good virtues and portray nice manners on presenter's part.


So, now we have established that Finduilas eminated hotness both in the physical sense and in the asthectic and social sense.
She was pretty, sexy and beautiful, thus alluring and attractive and consequently hot. She was friendly, easy going, a great person to go for advice, a rapt listener, thus a distinguishble being and a striking one making her hot.







Our opponents claim that she ceased to love her,

That's falsely and not true,

"You do not see or understand what is here come to pass. Must I now be put to double shame to reveal the truth to you? For I love you, Gwindor, and I am ashamed that I love you not more, but have taken a love even greater, from which I cannot escape. I did not seek it, and long I put it aside. But I have pity for your hurts, have pity on mine. Túrin loves me not; nor will."
She still loves Gwindor, doesn't hate her, doesn't despise her, but has taken a greater love to Turin which is certainly not her fault.

She did not supposedly love her, her love for him was past all assurance.

She also didn't leak out Turin's name, we are never once told that she ever leaked out his name.


If she was not a 'women' then why did Turin loved her company and went for her for advice and found pleasure with her? If she wasn't still a women then did Illuvatar himself desend from the heavens to put all these wise and kind words into her mouth.

We rest our case.
 

Thread suggestions

Top