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Spiders [Merged]

My_Precious

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Don't know if anyone asked before...

Those spiders from the Mirkood - are those a litter of Shelob?:confused: :confused: :confused:
Thanx:)
 

Ragnarok

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They're not directly from Shelob. But they're related to her. Shelob was a lot bigger and badder too. Both the Mirkwood spiders and Shelob are descended from Ungoliant, Melkor's confidant and partner.
 

Grond

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Somewhere in a Tolkien story.
I don't have my books for reference with me right now, but I seem to remember the author describing her "lesser spawn" (or something to that effect) being in Mirkwood.
 

Walter

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Shelob is an offspring of Ungoliant and the spiders of Mirkwood are the offspring of Shelob...
 

SarumansTreason

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Is Shelob and the Other spiders actually explained in the LOTR near when Tolkien explains how Shelob is Saurons pet/
 

Walter

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Indeed it is...

There agelong she had dwelt, an evil thing in spider-form, even such as of old had lived in the Land of the Elves in the West that is now under the Sea, such as Beren fought in the Mountains of Terror in Doriath, and so came to Lúthien upon the green sward amid the hemlocks in the moonlight long ago. How Shelob came there, flying from ruin, no tale tells, for out of the Dark Years few tales have come. But still she was there, who was there before Sauron, and before the first stone of Barad-dûr; and she served none but herself, drinking the blood of Elves and Men, bloated and grown fat with endless brooding on her feasts, weaving webs of shadow; for all living things were her food, and her vomit darkness. Far and wide her lesser broods, bastards of the miserable mates, her own offspring, that she slew, spread from glen to glen, from the Ephel Dúath to the eastern hills to Dol Guldur and the fastnesses of Mirkwood. But none could rival her, Shelob the Great, last child of Ungoliant to trouble the unhappy world. --- LotR - Shelob's lair
 

elenya

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if I only knew...
Here's a thought; if Ungoliant was the only spideer thing in the beginning how does she have descendants? Mitosis(sp?)?
 

Eonwe

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nah, just kiddin :)

She must have made an egg sack, like I saw on that "SOME PIG" movie, where wilbur talks to charlotte at the fair. But who mated with her??
 

elenya

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But insect queens have drones or something to mate with! Right?? It still makes no sens. Or maybe she really is like an ameoba. Duh duh duuuuuuhhh!!! jk:D Or am I??
 

My_Precious

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Not always. Some insects are able to reproduce with only female. believe that's how bees start their new nests.
 

Dhôn-Buri-Dhôn

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Not so. A queen bee does mate with a fertile male -- once. She then stores the sperm and fertilizes all her eggs with it from then on.

Perhaps there was a mate for Ungoliant who is not mentioned in the texts. Or perhaps Melkor was the original genetic engineer, and cooked up some sperm for her.

Either way, we must assume that either there were other unnamed males of the Shelob species, or that Shelob was provided with a supply of sperm to fertilize her eggs, or that she was capable of asexual reproduction in some way.
 

Gothmog

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and fleeing from the north she went down into Beleriand, and dwelt beneath Ered Gorgoroth, in that dark valley that was after called Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death, because of the horror that she bred there. For other foul creatures of spider form had dwelt there since the days of the delving of Angband, and she mated with them, and devoured them; and even after Ungoliant herself departed, and went whither she would into the forgotten south of the world, her offspring abode there and wove their hideous webs.
From the Silmarillion: Of the Flight of the Noldor.

So Ungoliant was not the only creature of Spider form in Middle-earth.
 

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