🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

The 2003 TTF Debating Tournament - Discussion

Should we have 5 judges or 4 + a poll?

  • Debates must be judged by 5 people and no poll!

    Votes: 18 81.8%
  • There's nothing wrong with 4 judges and a poll

    Votes: 3 13.6%
  • Either way is fine

    Votes: 1 4.5%

  • Total voters
    22

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
UPDATED SCHEDULE













Well, now that the Tolkienologists have finally replied, we can get this show on the road.
Now, for those of you who have no idea about what I'm talking about, let me explain what's going on.

What I have in mind is that each guild (Periaur, OiE, Tolkienologists, Scholars) would debate against each other twice over a certain amount of time, having one debate as the 'challenger' and one as the 'acceptor' (Therefore choosing their stance (negative or positive) when 'acceptor'), and the results would be put up in a table (eg, 3 points for a win, 1 point for a draw).
In this way, each Guild would take part in 6 debates, therefore putting their debating 'depth' to the test, as it would be difficult for a Guild member to participate in every debate (Unless they were an Uber-debator like Maedhros).

Each Guild would nominate a member (or 2 or 3) to be a neutral 'host' for other Guild's debates during the tournaments, and to come up with debate topics, start threads and organize judging.

FoolOfATook has agreed to be the tournament co-ordinator, and he will make sure that each Guild nominates their teams on time, and to make sure that everything runs smoothly.
We need someone to be the official debate topic co-ordinator, who shall have to approve each debate topic (thought of by the apponted host for each debate), or to come up with a nifty topic if the host needs some help.

Each Guild should have nominated their Debating 'squad' in this thread before the tournament begins. Any alterations afterwards will have to go through FoolOfATook.

Now, certain things need to be agreed to still.
Namely,
  • Each Debate's Length
  • Debating Team Size
  • Number of Judges for Each Debate
  • Anything else that Needs Discussing

Discuss :)
 
Last edited:

YayGollum

Conscience of TTF
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
5,538
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbia, South Carolina, the United States of Nor
First of all, why are the only guilds involved in this the ones that they are? Why haven't all of the guilds been tossed this idea? Not that I'd especially want the guild of Outcasts to be in on this. I'm not a big fan of debates, I'm just wondering why. oh well.

The length of a debate should be when both sides are tired of it. :D No, I guess that could make it go on for forever. I would think that the length would depend on the debate sometimes. Maybe not. How's about a month? A good topic could go on that long, right? I'm no expert and could really care less. *hides*

Debate team size? I don't know. Three or four. No big deal.

Number of judges? Would one be bad? Probably. Okay, five for every debate. Odd numbers = good numbers.

Anything else that needs discussing? Well, I already talked about something else at the beginning. Can't think of anything else now. *runs away*
 

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
YayGollum, these four guild are unofficially known as the 'debating guilds' as they are the only ones to compete in inter-guild debates. It is for this reason that a member is only allowed to be in one of them.

None of the other Guilds have shown any interest in inter-guild debating so I saw no need in inviting them.
 

YayGollum

Conscience of TTF
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
5,538
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbia, South Carolina, the United States of Nor
Got it. No support for any of the ideas I tossed at you. Well, you were the one who asked for ideas. oh well. Anyways, if those guilds are unofficially debating guilds, how do you expect normal people like me to know? :rolleyes: oh well. Whatever you say. I'd at least think that it would be a nice gesture to ask the other guilds. *sniff*
 

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
If you'd like to submit a team from the Outcasts, I'd gladly add you to the tournament.

And I took note of your suggestions, and they'll be considered once a few more suggestions have rolled in.
 

Ancalagon

Quality, not Quantity!
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
1,786
Reaction score
9
I agree with Yay, the other Guilds ought to be asked if they want to participate before assuming they don't. I know the Guild of Elves (who do not yet officially exist, but do exist) would like to get a team together. I am certain the Guild of Dwarves would be keen to get one and I am sure would The Time Lords, which contains some of our smartest eggheads in the forum! So it might be that you could have 8 teams in this leagu...ooops, tournament!

Plus, I don't think debates should last more than 8 replies per team, if you havent convinced the judges by then, it will get boring and repetitive with the same arguements being rolled out constantly.

When we considered this idea before, it was agreed by any who discussed it that timelimits and scoring would be essential to making it continue momentum. Beorn actually created Tolkien Debates.com based on the idea!
 

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
The problem with the GoE debating team is that all of the people who want to be in a debating team are already in one of the debating guilds.
The Guild of Dwarves has only just started, and we are not ready for such a thing.
The Time Lords could participate if they'd like.
 

Chymaera

Doorwarden
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
575
Reaction score
1
Location
Edmonton, Canada
Each Debate's Length: Eight replies sounds good to me.

Debating Team Size: 3 or 4

Number of Judges for Each Debate: 3 non-debating members of the host guild


Would it be better to have the debates over at Tolkiendebates.com or to have them here?
 
Last edited:

YayGollum

Conscience of TTF
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
5,538
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbia, South Carolina, the United States of Nor
Woah! Who gets to decide who's ready for this thing? And how do you know there aren't other people in that guild of elves place that might suddenly get interested in debating if they happen to know that they get to represent their guild in a whole new way? Sure, I agree with you about the Dwarf thing, but I happen to think that no matter how unlikely you think the chances are of any of these guilds making a team just for debates, you should still toss the idea at them. It's a nice gesture. You are acknowledging the fact that they are a guild and that there will be a guild versus guild debate thing going on. oh well. Never mind. Silly me. You know what's best. :rolleyes:
 

Chymaera

Doorwarden
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
575
Reaction score
1
Location
Edmonton, Canada
Of course thing are just in discusion mode so nothing is written in stone.

Maybe if there is interest some guilds might field more then one team and non-guild members might form there own teams.

Also you have to concider the last debate that it will be difficult enough with just four teams to organize and run and judge we should crawl before we run!
 

Ancalagon

Quality, not Quantity!
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
1,786
Reaction score
9
Woah! Who gets to decide who's ready for this thing?
LOL, I was thinking the exact same thing myself when I read it:D
 

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
I don't want this to become too big, Chymaera. Only one team from each Guild.
If any other Guilds would like to field a team, I'd glady add them to the tournament.

This is just an inter-guild tournament, TolkienDebates is for all the large scale debating.
 

YayGollum

Conscience of TTF
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
5,538
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbia, South Carolina, the United States of Nor
Sure, crazy lady. I gots nothing against the guy's opinion. I just think that it would be a little more fair for everyone if the idea was tossed at the guild as a whole. Let all of the members see the idea and get invited to rally up a team. Maybe someone should at least PM the dudes in charge of the different guilds so they can tell their people about it. There are plenty of other people besides me and this guy in the guild of Dwarves. oh well.

Anyways, Woah! Are you actually considering having anything to do with the guild of Outcasts again, lady? Let me faint! :rolleyes:
 

Beleg

Fading
Joined
Jan 10, 2003
Messages
1,473
Reaction score
1
I think the problem with other guilds participating is that some leading members of those (RP) Guilds are quite active members of Lets say Guild of Tolkienology. It would be a conflict of Intrests too.

A debate should not be longer then 2 posts per member. This help to in stopping the repeptation of Ideas.

I guess 4 or 5 is the Standard contestent number for a Guild Debate?

4 Judges along with a poll.

Their might be other things too, for example most members here have not read HOME series so it might worry them if references are used from HOME and Members who haven't read HOME might not be able to tackle them. Then there is the time limit too. I guess 2 weeks per debate is a standard time but for tournament it might need to be lessended due to the abundunce of Debates.

Oh and Nice planning Pippin :) You sure have worked the schedule out carefully.
 

Chymaera

Doorwarden
Joined
Jan 7, 2002
Messages
575
Reaction score
1
Location
Edmonton, Canada
Originally posted by Pippin Took
I don't want this to become too big, Chymaera. Only one team from each Guild.
If any other Guilds would like to field a team, I'd glady add them to the tournament.

This is just an inter-guild tournament, TolkienDebates is for all the large scale debating.
Yes, bigger is not better;)

I see the generation of 16 good debate topics as the biggest problem
[a lot of brain sweat will have to tackle that.]

This should keep everyone busy right through the summer.:)
 

Maedhros

The Tall
Joined
Mar 18, 2002
Messages
1,189
Reaction score
3
Location
Formenos
The Guild of Scholars is game. I look foward to seeing and participating in the debates. I would like to offer to coordinate the debate topics, but I would like to participate in a couple of debates myself.
 
Last edited:

Lhunithiliel

FĂ«anorean
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
Messages
3,138
Reaction score
7
The Guild of Tolkienology is going to participate!

Our aim:

FOR THE HONOUR OF THE GUILD!
 

Aulë

The Larrikin
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
2,988
Reaction score
6
Location
Perth, Australia
Hmm, during a boring Whole Plant Physiology lecture today, I had a bit of time to come up up with some suggestions.

  • 8 Posts maximum per debate (incl. Intro and Conclusion)
  • 4 Team members
  • 2 Posts per team member
  • 1 Week (7 Days) timelimit for the debate, 1 week judging.
  • Alternating posts between each team, unless a 24 hour (48?) period has passed, in which they can have 2 posts in a row.
  • 4 Judges (2 from each of the other two Guilds {unless more Guilds take part, in which case 1 judge per Guild}) and a Poll.

Now, should we have each round starting directly after each other (eg, Round 1: 7th May-14th May; Round 2 14th May-21st May) or have a week between rounds?
The first option would allow the tournament to run faster, but the co-ordinator and hosts would have to be running things like clockwork for this to work.
Also, should the topics be released before the Guild picks their team from their squad (which should be submitted beforehand remember)?
Another thought- should each Guild member be limited to a certain amount of debates, so that the Guild's 'depth' can be put to the test?

Thanks to Maedhros for taking up that position, I'm sure that you can participate in a few debates, but make you'll have to get someone to fill in for your position for the debates you take part in.
Your job will be to make sure that each host has chosen a good enough topic (All topics must be PMed to Maedhros, and approved before the debate starts). If the host can't think of a good enough topic, you can 'assist' them in thinking of a good one.

And one last thing- I feel that the tournament should be started by the 7th of May, otherwise we could be altering rules for weeks.
 

YayGollum

Conscience of TTF
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Messages
5,538
Reaction score
6
Location
Columbia, South Carolina, the United States of Nor
Wouldn't the week where people are judging give you people enough time to organize the next debate?

I would say ---> Yes, the topics should be tossed at everybody. That's a nice thing to do. I have no idea if you've PMed everyone in charge of all of these other guilds. I know that I still haven't gotten a PM about it. But then, maybe PMing the people in charge with the first topic would be good.

No, I don't think that certain members should only be allowed to be in so many debates. Some guilds might have only four people that could care less about debating and that would be an evil reason to keep them out of this.
 

Thread suggestions

Top