seeker of solace
- Apr 27, 2002
- Reaction score
The judging thread's been open for quite some time, actually, but no one has volunteered.Huh. Ah, I would ask to be excused for this ---> Isn't this thing over? Who's in charge? Nobody? Well, the ithrynluin person, yes? oh well. Am I crazy for thinking that this thing was supposed to be finished after two weeks? Where's the judging thread? I could make the thing. I merely wouldn't wish to steal the fun away from someone who hasn't come across the time. *hides*
I felt the greatest point was the death of Thingol which was obviously led by greed. It is one thing to hate someone who has robbed or cheated you. It is another to hate someone who has murdered a beloved leader. Wealth can be regained. Thingol cannot be brought back to life.
Thank you very much. I still remember the explanation that you gave to me regarding what is the difference between a freeway and a highway.Fire away, old friend! I'll be happy to further explain my addled reasoning or elaborate on anything you like.
First I would like to begin asking a simple question. What books about ME have you read. I'm guessing the Published Silmarillion, LOTR, The Hobbit, Unfinished Tales. Not sure if you have read HOME, RGEO and the ATB.The real catalyst of the feud is the fight in Menegroth over the Nauglamir and the ensuing war between the Elves of Doriath and the Dwarves of Nogrod. Both sides behaved badly here but we get to the most controversial part of the debate: What version of the story should be considered “gospel”? Is it the account in the Quenta Noldorinwa as Maedhros proposes or the published Silmarillion as insisted by Thorondor and Turgon?
There is something that is very peculiar with this debate. CT has done an amazing job in creating the Published Silmarillion, by using bits and pieces from the different parts of his fathers writtings. In the case that concerns this debate, CT admitted that his version was an invention from him.Maedhros makes the case the published Silmarillion is incorrect based on the quoted note on Chapter 22 Of the Ruin of Doriath. Thorondor and Turgon’s maintains the position the published Silmarillion takes precedence because CT was given authority to change JRRT’s work and that the published Silmarillion is supposed to be a complete work. But they don’t provide a real response to the damning note on Chapter 22. Some have suggested that nothing in the HOME series should be used as “canon” but I think that is overly cautious. One has to be careful to demonstrate that the passage better fulfills the overall arc of the story than what is proposed to be replaced. Regardless, Thingol behaves badly in both accounts. In the Quenta, he is a deadbeat and in the Silmarillion, he is consumed by lust for the Silmaril and provokes the fight by scorning the Dwarves. Also, as a king of a great nation, Thingol has a greater responsibility to act in the interests of his people rather than his own personal enrichment. Much more so than the Dwarvish craftsman. In my mind, a king’s treachery is worse than a hired hand’s. I have to award this matter to the Stone Fondlers by a narrow margin.
Why did you reach that conclusion baragund? Notice that while the other judge uses the argument found in the Quenta Ñoldorinwa, aobut the paying of the works, the other judge leaves out the killing of those dwarves by Thingol?It means that the Elves' enimity started out because of a murder and the Dwarves started out because Thingol got greedy and tried to pay less than he had originally agreed to. You can't undo a murder. It might've been possible, had the Dwarves rather than killing Thingol, backed off or negotiated to get their money/wealth/payment rather than becoming angry and taking the king's life, the Elves never would've had a leg to stand on upon for any grudge.
Thanks.I don't mind further questions, but I have to warn you, I made my notes the old fashioned way and didn't keep them so I won't be able to give much of a complete accounting of it. I'm not very good at audits.