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Three rings for the Elven Kings...?

BelDain

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three rings

It's interesting the poem says "Three rings for the Elven Kings..." when the initial bearers of the rings were Gil-galad and Galadriel; just one Elven King and one princess(?).
 

Beleg Strongbow

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Re: three rings

Originally posted by BelDain
It's interesting the poem says "Three rings for the Elven Kings..." when the initial bearers of the rings were Gil-galad and Galadriel; just one Elven King and one princess(?).

Well Cirdan was a king of the sindar for ages wasn't he. If not he was a lord. Galadriel was a queen . But does it really matter???
 

Strider97

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This does raise an interesting point however. Gil-Galad gave his ring to Elrond (Elf to Elf). Cirdan however gave his ring to Gandalf, a Maia, because he would need it in his work for ME. The twenty rings were made for men, elves and dwarves. The only other ring that was used across species was the one ring, Maia to Man to Gollum to Hobbit to Hobbit.
 

Gothmog

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Of the Great Rings, all except the One Ring of Sauron were made just for the Elves. Sauron swiped 16 of them and gave them to Men and Dwarves. So it is only two of the rings that did not go to a different species.
 

Eonwe

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in UT, it says Gil-Galad had the ring of air, Vilya and the ring of Fire, Narya. He gave Vilya to Elrond during the war of the elves and Sauron, and he gave Nenya to Cirdan just before the Last Alliance.
 

BelDain

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Originally posted by Gothmog
Of the Great Rings, all except the One Ring of Sauron were made just for the Elves. Sauron swiped 16 of them and gave them to Men and Dwarves. So it is only two of the rings that did not go to a different species.
Hey, you're right Gothmog. I hadn't thought of it that way before.

So maybe the poem could go something like:
Ninteen rings for Elven-kind under the sky
Sixteen stolen by the Dark Lord on his dark throne
Nine given to mortal men doomed to die
Seven to the Dwarf lords in their halls of stone
One final ring forged in the land of Mordor
where the shadows lie.

:D
 

HLGStrider

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I think you're wrong.

Sauron himself made all the rings but the three for the Elven Kings, to snare people. That is why he could get ahold of the men so easy. As said in the council of Elrond....

The elven ones he never touched. The dwarvish ones just made them greedy and slightly long lived because of some dwarvish stubborness.

Look it up and prove me wrong if you want. I haven't done the research...
 

Gothmog

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In those days the smiths of Ost-in-Edhil surpassed all that they had contrived before; and they took thought, and they made Rings of Power. But Sauron guided their labours, and he was aware of all that they did; for his desire was to set a bond upon the Elves and to bring them under his vigilance.
Now the Elves made many rings; but secretly Sauron made one Ring to rule all the others, and their power was bound up with it, to be subject wholly to it and to last only so long as it too should last. And much of the strength and will of Sauron passed into that One Ring; for the power of the Elven-rings was very great, and that which should govern them must be a thing of surpassing potency; and Sauron forged it in the Mountain of Fire in the Land of Shadow.
From the Silmarillion: the Rings of Power and the Third Age.

Sauron gave the Elves the knowledge to make the rings of power and guided their work but he only made One ring himself.

Now these were the Three that had last been made, and they possessed the greatest powers. Narya, Nenya, and Vilya, they were named, the Rings of Fire, and of Water, and of Air, set with ruby and adamant and sapphire; and of all the Elven-rings Sauron most desired to possess them, for those who had them in their keeping could ward off the decays of time and postpone the weariness of the world. But Sauron could not discover them, for they were given into the hands of the Wise, who concealed them and never again used them openly while Sauron kept the Ruling Ring. Therefore the Three remained unsullied, for they were forged by Celebrimbor alone, and the hand of Sauron had never touched them; yet they also were subject to the One.
From the Silmarillion: the Rings of Power and the Third Age.

The last three rings were made by Celebrimbor with Sauron knowing nothing about their making and therefore he did not have a hand in their creation other than the knowledge that he gave to the Elves. It is for this reason that the last Three of the Elven rings were 'unsullied'.

So I think that this qualifies as proof.;)
 

HLGStrider

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You mean I could lose my place as the Ranger's offical Jester?!?!?!?!?

Research my posts. You'll find my reputation to be somewhere in between class clown and that "nice little girl".
 

Grond

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Originally posted by Eonwe
in UT, it says Gil-Galad had the ring of air, Vilya and the ring of Fire, Narya. He gave Vilya to Elrond during the war of the elves and Sauron, and he gave Nenya to Cirdan just before the Last Alliance.
From Unfinished Tales, History of Galdriel and Celeborn,
"At this time the first Council was held, and it was there determined that an Elvish stronghold in the east of Eriador should be maintained at Imladris rather than in Eregion. At that time Gil-galad gave Vilya, the Blue Ring, to Elrond and appointed him to be his vice-regent in Eriador; but the Red Ring he kept, until he gave it to Cirdan whe he set out from Lindon in the days of the Last Alliance."
Elrond got his Ring somewhere around SA 1701. Cirdan most likely received the Ring of Fire in his keeping in SA 3430 when The Last Alliance was formed.
 
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HLGStrider

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All right, I have a question:

Why did the elves make rings for the dwarves?

Elves do not particularly like dwarves.
Dwarves do not particularly trust elves and/or elvish magic.
The Dwarves are not mentioned in the last alliance of Elves and Men.

Why did the Elves make seven rings for the Dwarf lords then? Perhaps out of spite because they knew the dwarf rings weren't as powerful... "na na na na... our rings are better!" and all that?
 

Eonwe

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because the Noldor Elves of Eregion and the dwarves of Moria had a lot in common: They both very much liked to make things. And a great friendship developed between them (dwarves were made by Aule, and Aule was the favorite Vala that the Noldor were involved with, that's how Feanor gained knowledge on how to build the Silmarils, the palantiri, etc), so much so that on the door to Moria, it said "Speak Friend, and Enter" :)

So it was pretty cool that here in ME, the dwarves and Elves got along so well...
 

Grond

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Originally posted by HLGStrider
All right, I have a question:

Why did the elves make rings for the dwarves?

Elves do not particularly like dwarves.
Dwarves do not particularly trust elves and/or elvish magic.
The Dwarves are not mentioned in the last alliance of Elves and Men.

Why did the Elves make seven rings for the Dwarf lords then? Perhaps out of spite because they knew the dwarf rings weren't as powerful... "na na na na... our rings are better!" and all that?
Celebrimbor and his guild of Ring-makers did not make any Great Rings for anyone except Elves. All nineteen of the Great Rings were meant to be retained by the Elves. As a matter of fact, they were retained by the Elves until Celebrimbor was captured by Sauron during the destruction of Eregion and the locations of the 16 Rings directly touched by Sauron were tortured out of him. But good old Celebrimbor would not give up the location of the Three Great Rings which he had made that were unsullied by Sauron, being made by himself alone. Sauron, in his anger, killed Celebrimbor and used his dead body as a battle standard as he waged war to the West locking the remaining Elves under Gil-galad near the havens. It was only through the arrival of the Numenoreans that Gil-galad was saved and the friendship of Numenor and the kingdom of Gil-galad beegun.
 

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