🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

What if Frodo had defected to Sauron?

Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
160
Reaction score
24
Location
Hobbiton
I know Boromir was wrong when he accused Frodo of it, but what if Frodo had decided that the quest was hopeless and decided that the only way to get the Shire not slain/enslaved was to give the Ring to Suaron?

I know this might sound crazy, but something similar DID actually happen in The Silmarallion, where Maeglin, true, he was captured, sold out Gondolin to Morgoth in exchange for being spared and also being promised the king's daughter as his forced wife and Morgoth actually agreed to it.


Also, Suaron had promised the Dwarves their Rings back and control of Moria if they could get him his Ring back, so Sauron might have rewarded Frodo nicely for returning the Ring of Power.


On the other hand, it is establsihed, I think both by some of the remarks that the dwarves make in FOTR and some remarks Gandalf make in ROTK that Sauron is about as trustworthy with his promises as a DC career politician. He might have just killed (and or kept alive and tortured) Frodo and slain/enslaved the Shire anyway.
 

Merroe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
274
Reaction score
312
Location
Luxembourg
Perhaps you are contemplating this question, dear BalrogRingDestroyer, whilst thinking that Frodo had options to choose from, and to consider which one would turn out best for him, using a free and logical mind.

That's not how the storyline goes though, IMHO.

Hobbits could withstand the lust for the One Ring better than any other race, but no mortal could resist claiming it for himself forever. And while approaching the place of its making, also its power and influence on its bearer grew ever fiercer.

Frodo could not consider leaving the One Ring to anyone, not to Gollum of course, but not even to Sam. And in the end, he yielded and claimed the One Ring for himself (but with a different final result, as we know).

In conclusion: he could either hold on to his purpose and destroy the Ring, or he could claim it but the power the Ring wielded on him precluded any thought of a negotiated defection or of giving it away in the end.
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
160
Reaction score
24
Location
Hobbiton
I more meant closer to the beginning, though I do wonder why Boromir never thought of that either when he accused Frodo of trying to bring it to Sauron.

Supposing that Frodo was able to part with the Ring, do you think Sauron would spare the Shire or not?
 

Merroe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2016
Messages
274
Reaction score
312
Location
Luxembourg
Boromis was profoundly faithful to Gondor and he was to become the next Stewart by birth right if the king had not returned. With wars constantly being waged at their borders, the thought of preserving this realm by negotiation did not exist, nor would it have been negotiable for Sauron.

You may be interested also to consult the conditions, which the Mouth of Sauron formulated in front of the Black Gate: Sauron was going to break Gondor’s power no matter what.

As regards Frodo, he was briefed very early that Sauron’s recapturing of the Ring would lead to complete destruction. Remember what Gandalf explained to him in Bag End:

The Enemy still lacks one thing to give him strength and knowledge to beat down all resistance, break the last defences, and cover all the lands in a second darkness. He lacks the One Ring.

[…] He only needs the One; for he made that Ring himself, it is his, and he let a great part of his own former power pass into it, so that he could rule all the others. If he recovers it, then he will command them all again, wherever they be, even the Three, and all that has been wrought with them will be laid bare, and he will be stronger than ever.

But even if Frodo would have considered “selling” the Ring for the illusion of sparing the Shire, how could he have hoped to do so? The Nazgûl were sent to him for anything else than to parley with him. He was never offered this choice.
 

Bulbo

New Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2018
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Location
Gdańsk
However, if he could hypothetically do it, or he decided to give the ring back to the beginning of being a holder - then he could give the ring back.
Sauron would come back, all butt, maybe leave some slaves.

The Lord of the Rings is an engaging story about the currency of happiness and courage. A lot of examples of behaviors and emotions that accompany the heroes during everyday struggle for someone to buy poe currency. Let it be given to us as a model, how brave they bought and sold the ring, and what price it had for his exile.
I am not the first who claims that it is fair and honest.
I will also agree with you regarding the Path of Exile Currency, it is worth buying them.
When they ask me about PoE currency such as Exalted orb and other PoE orbs, then I refer them to the textbook and guides.
http://poe-market.com/1_2_about-us.html
The brightness of the morning sun and green grass, an unusual combination of memories and dreams and ambitions. Perhaps that's how your day looks, but I remember my days very well.
However, I remember the day when I bought the currency, because we talk about currency to Path of Exile here
 
Last edited:

Alcuin

Registered User
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
838
Reaction score
415
Location
Consigned to the salt mines of Núrnen…
[S]omething similar DID actually happen in The Silmarallion, where Maeglin, true, he was captured, sold out Gondolin to Morgoth in exchange for being spared and also being promised the king's daughter as his forced wife and Morgoth actually agreed to it.
The Elves considered Maeglin’s actions perverse and treasonous. Morgoth certainly did not enter into this agreement out of good will: he sowed distrust and discord among even the Noldor who escaped, but his principal interest was in eliminating Turgon and Gondolin, the last stronghold of resistance among the Noldor, destroying what was later remembered as the grandest and most illustrious of all Noldorin kingdoms, the one most like their home in Eldamar. He would promise Maeglin anything, and if he delivered in the slightest, it could be only to further some other nefarious scheme before destroying Maeglin altogether, even if that meant keeping Maeglin as a creature to be ruined mentally and spiritually as a willing slave; but Morgoth was probably too nihilistic even for that. (If you want to known more about that, read Tolkien’s essay “Notes on motives in the Silmarillion” in the section “Myths Transformed” in Morgoth’s Ring, volume 10 of History of Middle-earth.) It is a fact of life that evil people will tell you whatever they believe you want to hear in order to get from you what they want, then toss you and their promises aside as inconsequential. Take an old man’s word for it: Believe it now, or learn it first hand to your own cost and regret.

Suaron … promised the Dwarves their Rings back and control of Moria if they could get him his Ring back, so Sauron might have rewarded Frodo nicely for returning the Ring of Power.
Dain and his counselors didn’t believe Sauron: they knew who they were dealing with. Glóin was sent to Rivendell to warn Bilbo that Sauron was searching for him.

Sauron is about as trustworthy with his promises as a DC career politician. He might have just killed (and or kept alive and tortured) Frodo and slain/enslaved the Shire anyway.
Exactly. Evil people will tell you whatever they believe you want to hear in order to get from you what they want, then toss you and their promises aside as inconsequential. Sauron is a sociopath, but his native powers far eclipse those of Men and Elves.

BTW, you left out Gorlim the Unhappy, who trusted Sauron when Sauron promised him that he would be peacefully reunited with his missing wife. After Gorlim betrayed Barahir and the Outlaws of Dorthonion, Sauron had him slain. Even then, Sauron broke his word: the unhappy spirit of Gorlim remained behind to warn Beren of his plight.

Frodo could not consider leaving the One Ring to anyone, not to Gollum of course, but not even to Sam. And in the end, he yielded and claimed the One Ring for himself (but with a different final result, as we know).

In conclusion: he could either hold on to his purpose and destroy the Ring, or he could claim it but the power the Ring wielded on him precluded any thought of a negotiated defection or of giving it away in the end.
Following along this line, Frodo could not even throw the Ring into the fire on his hearth at Bag End after Gandalf first told him what it was. He saw Bilbo as a pawing Orc, and Sam, too. Even Gollum saw Sauron as an enemy and sought to keep the Ring from him, twisted and corrupted and confused as he was.

However, if he could hypothetically do it, or he decided to give the ring back to the beginning of being a holder - then he could give the ring back.
Sauron would come back, all butt, maybe leave some slaves
Oh, but for Godwin’s Law! And I mean that in all good humor: What would Sauron leave the Hobbits? Would he be gentler than Saruman, who wrecked the Shire in only 40 days, wantonly chopping down trees, hording food in preparation to starve the Hobbits to death when winter arrived? Sauron was far worse than Saruman: he was an evil, cruel slavemaster, killing and corrupting his unfortunate minions using arts practiced over thousands of years of betrayal, treachery, and malice. Merroe points out that he was going to destroy the Dúnedain and surely the Elves, too, so far as he was able. You may recall that after disappearing after Lúthien defeated him at Tol Sirion, he re-emerged after the War of Wrath and presented himself to Eönwë the Herald, only to disappear again when told he would have to return to Valinor to face judgment. Gandalf called him “Sauron, the Base Master of Treachery, … faithless and accursed” to the Mouth of Sauron. An apt description. And in Rivendell, he told Frodo, “the Dark Lord … would have tormented you for trying to keep his Ring, if any greater torment were possible than being robbed of it and seeing it on his hand.” Surely this would have been Frodo’s fate in Mordor: who can imagine Sauron setting him free?

[E]ven if Frodo would have considered “selling” the Ring for the illusion of sparing the Shire, how could he have hoped to do so? The Nazgûl were sent to him for anything else than to parley with him. He was never offered this choice.
Compromise was not in Sauron’s character. Ar-Pharazôn learned this to grievous misfortune. So did Celebrimbor. As did Gorlim. And so, we are led to believe, had many, many others: the traitors who gave up Tol Sirion and Cirith Ungol, for instance. Sauron could not be trusted.
 
Last edited:

Thread suggestions

Top