🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝

Welcome to our forum! Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox! Plus you won't see ads ;)

Who is smarter, melkor or Sauron?

Who is SMARTER?

  • Sauron

    Votes: 7 46.7%
  • Melkor

    Votes: 4 26.7%
  • they´re equally smart

    Votes: 2 13.3%
  • none of them was smart at all

    Votes: 2 13.3%

  • Total voters
    15

Merry

Has chubby cheeks
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
222
Reaction score
1
Location
In a pub
I personally don't think either were that smart. Both were very powerful yet otherthrown more than once. True evil should be able to kick ass especially when they are more powerful.
 

TulKas Astaldo

Registered User
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
28
Reaction score
0
Melkor was overthrown twice and Sauron twice, three if you count being killed in The Silmarillion and four if you count the Ring being destroyed...
 

Merry

Has chubby cheeks
Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Messages
222
Reaction score
1
Location
In a pub
Exactly, this proves my point. Not very smart if you are overthrown more than once!! Frodo could have given Sauron his ring back and still kicked his ass!!

But that is another debate! :)
 

Beleg Strongbow

Superior Elf
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
698
Reaction score
0
Location
Doriath AND Sydney Australia and where ever "SHE"
Melkor= Mightiest Vala, Sauron= Maia of Aule
Melkor= Made dragons, balrogs, orcs and corrupted sauron and other maia.
Sauron-= Made a ring and maybe a better race of orcs
Melkor= Deceived the vala
Sauron= Decieved a powerhungry man Ar Pharzon
In the sil it says that the vala have the greater power then maia whichare sort of a lesser race

I took the valar and the elves and men to kill Melkor.
For sauron they sent 5 maia and the waning elves and men could finish them off then 2 hobbits could i think i know who is smarter
 

Lord Aragorn

King of Gondor
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Messages
89
Reaction score
3
Location
Ohio
Sauron decieved a few men and elves... Melkor deceived the Eldar of Valinor and had the, sorry for bluntness, "balls" to parade into Valinor, a gigantic evil spider in tote, kill the Two Trees and steal the Silmarils, the most precious things to the Eldar then head back to ME knowign the Noldor would come along only to meet their doom. So what if he was taken down eventually, the Vala themselves had to come in and kick his butt. Sauron allows two hobbits and a small army of men destroy him in the end. Melkor was far smarter in my opinion, as was he more powerful.
 

Beleg Strongbow

Superior Elf
Joined
Jan 18, 2002
Messages
698
Reaction score
0
Location
Doriath AND Sydney Australia and where ever "SHE"
Originally posted by Lord Aragorn
Sauron decieved a few men and elves... Melkor deceived the Eldar of Valinor and had the, sorry for bluntness, "balls" to parade into Valinor, a gigantic evil spider in tote, kill the Two Trees and steal the Silmarils, the most precious things to the Eldar then head back to ME knowign the Noldor would come along only to meet their doom. So what if he was taken down eventually, the Vala themselves had to come in and kick his butt. Sauron allows two hobbits and a small army of men destroy him in the end. Melkor was far smarter in my opinion, as was he more powerful.


Exactly what i said Melkor acheived a lot more then Sauron he had the whole of Beleriand under his control and Sauron had what Mordor and Dol Guldur. The opisition then was a lot stronger 2.
 

Bucky

Registered User
Joined
Dec 20, 2001
Messages
1,623
Reaction score
12
Location
Near New Haven
One = 'Vala'
Plural = 'Valar'

Sorry for the grammer lesson, I know it seems picky.

BTW, No Vala was in the Host of the West when Morgoth was thrown down.
Eonwe, herald of Manwe led the Host.
The Silmarillion says Sauron was brought before him & begged for pardon. Eonwe said 'It's not in my power to pardon those of my order".
So, Sauron books off....

I never could understand that.
It would be like Bin Ladin being captured & brought before a US General & begging for a pardon, which of course, would be beyond the General's authority & power to do.
So, would the General just let Bin Ladin go?
No, they'd drag his behind back to Washington & let the Higher-ups decide his fate.

I mean Sauron has CLEARLY shown by this time that he is capable of causing severe havoc.
Shouldn't he have been bound & dragged back to Manwe for judgement like Morgoth?
Eonwe & company didn't let the Dragons or Balrogs go free, did they?
Why Sauron then?



>>>True evil should be able to kick ass especially when
they are more powerful.

Name ONE example where evil isn't eventually defeated.....
 

fëanáro

Registered User
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
Location
MEXICO
Sorry men but lots of you aint answering the main poll´s question.

When I posted this poll, i thougt i made it clear though, i was just talking smartwise: "Who is smarter?"
not:
Who is Stronger?
Who is more powerful?
Who did the most?
Who achieved the most?
or Who had more "balls"?

I was just talking about intelligence, and that is measured by mistakes and achievments, not achievements as a whole, or as a quantity, but the importance of the achievementes, the quality they accomplished. And more important that achievements i think intelligence is measured by the errors and the greatness of those. I also think that Sauron making the ring made himself vulnerable if someone else used it against him, but Melkor did others, i cant recall right now.

Probably they were both very smart, and the doubt about who was smarter is a little controversial.
First I thought that evil wants to endure above all, because making sure they endure they make sure evil will last longer. And Sauron Endured 2 ages longer than Melkor and did what he pleased for more time than him. He never got caught (well destroyed at the end). And Melkor got in "jail" twice and the second time for ever. (well it says that until Manwë withdraws from his leadership in "the simarillion")

so... I thought TIME was the most important factor.
 

Úlairi

Crying in the Wilderness
Joined
Jan 13, 2002
Messages
1,965
Reaction score
6
Location
Down the rabbit hole...
Melkor was the more powerful simply because he was a Vala and Sauron was a Maia. But Sauron was of the highest order of the Maia of Aule making him a very powerful Maia. The Valar were worried enough to send five maia onto just one! Sauron was smarter for he put a lot of his being in the one ring. Enough to corrupt men and elves alike. So he had chances of coming back! He also waited until the race of men and elves were weaker so then covering the land in a second darkness wouldn't be as hard as when Numenor existed. It was by chance and luck that Frodo and Sam succeeded. Lots of Sauron's servants had basically left Mordor to destroy the last strong city in Middle-earth and nearly succeeded if the Lord of the Nazgul wasn't killed. When the Mouth Of Sauron came and showed Frodo and Sam's stuff Gandalf knew that Middle-earth was doomed for Sauron had left a large enough portion of his armies to destroy the army of Gondor and Gandalf feared that Middle-earth would be covered in a second darkness with or without the ring and sooner or later [if Frodo and Sam had hidden it before being captured and killed (this is all hypothetical)], Sauron would have found the Ring and would be nearly indomitable unless the Valar came themselves and destroyed but as it is said in the Sil. The Valar would never leave Aman until Melkor escaped from the outside. My conclusion is that Sauron is the smarter of the two and it was just unlucky to be defeated by two hobbits.:p
 

Tyaronumen

Agent of the West
Joined
Nov 12, 2001
Messages
331
Reaction score
0
Location
Denver, CO, (USA)
I don't think anything in Tolkien's work addresses the inherent intelligence of Melkor and Sauron... now if only we could see those Mensa scores for comparison...

Anyhow -- evil can be very intelligent intellectually, but lacks completely in the intelligence of the heart that comes when one lives in balance with one's surroundings. This 'intelligence of the heart' -- compassion, intuition, love being components of it -- provides the counter to the intellect of the mind to make decisions with wisdom and mercy.

By that definition, neither Melkor nor Sauron had much intelligence, albeit great intellect. Reminds me an awful lot of modern day world leaders. :)
 

fëanáro

Registered User
Joined
Jan 16, 2002
Messages
31
Reaction score
0
Location
MEXICO
i believe in the words from Tyaronumen almost completly and I think Ulairi has a strong point of view which i think could be right.
 

Thread suggestions

Top