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Would some folks in Gondor Recognize Him from his Undercover Days Serving Denethor's Father?

CirdanLinweilin

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I just thought of this? Would they have? Especially the older gentlemen and women?

Why did it take him to heal someone to finally recognize him? Or did everyone I just mention get killed previous somehow or just die off and nobody remembers the Gallant Man who served Ecthelion?
Thoughts?
 

Alcuin

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Denethor knew who he was, and had determined who he was when he served his father as Thorongil.

Denethor was a year older than Aragorn. Imrahil of Dol Amroth was a few years older than either Denethor or Aragorn, and may well have remembered Thorongil, too. Imrahil also accepted Aragorn as the rightful king by the end of the Battle of Pelennor Fields, though he never indicates that he remembers Thorongil.
 

Squint-eyed Southerner

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The question that immediately comes to mind is, had the author worked out that part of Aragorn's back story at this point? After all, as he himself said, when Strider first appeared at the Pony, he "had no more idea of who he was than had Frodo".
 

CirdanLinweilin

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Denethor knew who he was, and had determined who he was when he served his father as Thorongil.

Denethor was a year older than Aragorn. Imrahil of Dol Amroth was a few years older than either Denethor or Aragorn, and may well have remembered Thorongil, too. Imrahil also accepted Aragorn as the rightful king by the end of the Battle of Pelennor Fields, though he never indicates that he remembers Thorongil.
Thanks Alcuin, but I was more musing the common Gondorian. Why'd it take so long? Surely some older folks would recognize his face as the same that he had serving Denethor's father...or did years of Rangering really do a number on his grill? XD



CL
 

Grond

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What person of that age would have seen him? Old people were rarely in the battle front. The only common people that would have seen him would have been in the Houses of Healing. The rest of the time, he would have been surrounded by his entourage.
 

CirdanLinweilin

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The question that immediately comes to mind is, had the author worked out that part of Aragorn's back story at this point? After all, as he himself said, when Strider first appeared at the Pony, he "had no more idea of who he was than had Frodo".
Good point, Squint!


What person of that age would have seen him? Old people were rarely in the battle front. The only common people that would have seen him would have been in the Houses of Healing. The rest of the time, he would have been surrounded by his entourage.
True enough!

CL
 

Squint-eyed Southerner

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Yes, IIRC almost all the women, children, and older people had left the city. It had been nearly forty years since Aragorn had been there, so it would be very unlikely that anyone would be around who could recognize him.
 

CirdanLinweilin

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Yes, IIRC almost all the women, children, and older people had left the city. It had been nearly forty years since Aragorn had been there, so it would be very unlikely that anyone would be around who could recognize him.
That's true, too, man I need to reread the whole book.

I was just wondering, Too bad it was a kinda lame question. :(


CL
 

Squint-eyed Southerner

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Now, now, don't think that way -- I forget, or fail to notice, stuff all the time! For instance, we all just assumed you meant Aragorn, though he's not named in the thread title. :p
 

CirdanLinweilin

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Now, now, don't think that way -- I forget, or don't notice, stuff all the time! For instance, we all just assumed you meant Aragorn, though he's not named in the thread title. :p
Yeah, sorry, but yeah I was wondering about Aragorn and his entrance into Gondor. I didn't remember the time frame between serving Denethor's Father and The War of the Ring. That, and it's nearly end of day I posted this and wasn't really in the best mood emotionally.

Still though, thanks for answering, guys.



CL
 

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That's true, too, man I need to reread the whole book.

I was just wondering, Too bad it was a kinda lame question. :(


CL
Not a lame question, I was recently leafing through the appendices wondering the same thing. Perhaps it is one big conspiracy and Imrahil is the true king somehow, he was the one that truly saved Faramir. 'Yet I believe that it came from the shadows above, for else his fever and sickness were not to be understood; since the wound was not deep or vital. How then do you read the matter?' Yet Aragorn claims it could not have come from a Nazgûl or Faramir would have died that night.
 

CirdanLinweilin

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Not a lame question, I was recently leafing through the appendices wondering the same thing. Perhaps it is one big conspiracy and Imrahil is the true king somehow, he was the one that truly saved Faramir. 'Yet I believe that it came from the shadows above, for else his fever and sickness were not to be understood; since the wound was not deep or vital. How then do you read the matter?' Yet Aragorn claims it could not have come from a Nazgûl or Faramir would have died that night.
Maybe!



CL
 

Inziladun

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I am joking, but I always found Imrahil to be peculiar, he speaks more like an Elf or an Elf-lord than Aragorn, like the High Elves if they were speaking in a common tongue.
 

Gothmog

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I just thought of this? Would they have? Especially the older gentlemen and women?

Why did it take him to heal someone to finally recognize him? Or did everyone I just mention get killed previous somehow or just die off and nobody remembers the Gallant Man who served Ecthelion?
Thoughts?
You actually have two separate questions here. It is possible that some would recognise him as Thorongil who served once in the army of Gondor but at the time he did this Aragorn was not making any claims as to his lineage.

When Aragorn then came to Minas Tirith during the war of the Ring he would not press his claim until the war was finished so was not seen by most Gondorians. He went into the houses of healing in disguise so as not to be recognised. It was only that he was able to heal those who could not be healed by lesser skills that brought about his being recognised as "The rightful King"
 

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We might expand this to ask, Did Théoden recognize Aragorn as Thorondor? After all, before he served Ecthelion Steward of Minas Tirith, he served Thengel King of Rohan. Théoden would have been nine when Thorongil arrived in Meduseld, and if Thorongil spent about half his time in Rohan and half in Gondor, Théoden would have been about twenty when Thorongil left for Gondor. From all accounts, it seems Théoden was a vigorous and actively-involved crown prince: he would surely have known Thorongil, who was likely one of his father’s reliable servants; moreover, the Lord of Lossarnach was probably Théoden’s uncle (his mother was Morwen of Lossarnach, making Théoden and Forlong the Fat first cousins), he was born in Gondor, and it seems reasonable that, before his father died and affairs kept him in Rohan, he would visit Gondor from time to time, where Thorongil was in service to Ecthelion until Théoden became king aged thirty-two. Moreover, Aragorn himself tells Éomer that he has “ridden with the host of the Rohirrim, though under other name and in other guise. … I have spoken with Éomund your father, and with Théoden son of Thengel.” Surely this claim was reported verbatim to Théoden! And if the Lords of the Rohirrim knew who he was, this must also have become known to the nobles of Gondor as well, at least in the days following the victory on the Field of Pelennor. By the time the Army of Gondor returned from the Black Gate, perhaps many of the older inhabitants of Minas Tirith had wracked their memories to recall a young Thorondor and the battle on the quays of Umbar.
 

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Ahhhhh! Here it is:
Indeed [Denethor] was as like to Thorongil as to one of nearest kin, and yet was ever placed second to the stranger in the hearts of men and the esteem of his father. At the time many thought that Thorongil had departed before his rival became his master, though indeed Thorongil had never himself vied with Denethor, nor held himself higher than the servant of his father. And in one matter only were their counsels to the Steward at variance: Thorongil often warned Ecthelion not to put trust in Saruman the White in Isengard, but to welcome rather Gandalf the Grey. But there was little love between Denethor and Gandalf; and after the days of Ecthelion there was less welcome for the Grey Pilgrim in Minas Tirith. Therefore later, when all was made clear, many believed that Denethor, who was subtle in mind and looked further and deeper than other men of his day, had discovered who this stranger Thorongil in truth was, and suspected that he and Mithrandir designed to supplant him.

The Return of the King, LoTR Appendix A, Annals of the Kings and Rulers: Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion: The Stewards
 

Squint-eyed Southerner

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Well, nuts -- you got that in there while I was laboriously typing it out one-fingered on my phone, so I deleted it.

I will restore my PS: Nice collection there, Grond -- I'm turning green!
 

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Taking the term „folks“ from the question to mean the non-aristocracy, I kind of doubt it. In terms of later (?) times up to and including our own, Aragorn was a mercenary – and that means quite preoccupied with things military. As per Foster’s “Guide”: “In 2980 [TA], a small fleet of Gondor, led by Thorongil, attacked Umbar in a surprise raid and burnt many of the ships of the corsairs.” Aragorn in disguise as Thorongil would not have been going to “pubs” and mixing with the locals. The situation in Gondor, and never mind Minas Tirith, was quite different to the largely depopulated Arnor, where Aragorn could acquire the (nick-) name of “Strider” at the “Prancing Pony” in the hamlet of Bree – unthinkable in Gondor. He would have been more of a rumor to “folks” there.
 

CirdanLinweilin

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Taking the term „folks“ from the question to mean the non-aristocracy, I kind of doubt it. In terms of later (?) times up to and including our own, Aragorn was a mercenary – and that means quite preoccupied with things military. As per Foster’s “Guide”: “In 2980 [TA], a small fleet of Gondor, led by Thorongil, attacked Umbar in a surprise raid and burnt many of the ships of the corsairs.” Aragorn in disguise as Thorongil would not have been going to “pubs” and mixing with the locals. The situation in Gondor, and never mind Minas Tirith, was quite different to the largely depopulated Arnor, where Aragorn could acquire the (nick-) name of “Strider” at the “Prancing Pony” in the hamlet of Bree – unthinkable in Gondor. He would have been more of a rumor to “folks” there.
That makes sense.


CL
 

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